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Isv
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on May 30th 2019, 12:10 pm
A darthant up against an ISV Dc?
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O-Siri
O-Siri

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on May 30th 2019, 6:15 pm
Valkorion beats Vaylin

Next match:

Ven Zallow vs Vergere

Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on May 30th 2019, 6:16 pm
Vergere.

Inb4 ftl combat speed Zallow
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Word Salad
Level Two
Level Two

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on May 30th 2019, 6:25 pm
Zallow is ftl. He wins.

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Isv
Isv

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on May 30th 2019, 6:35 pm
Vergere
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

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on May 30th 2019, 8:04 pm
Zallow shreds. What does Vergere have to suggest she can keep up with Deceived Malgus?
O-Siri
O-Siri

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on May 30th 2019, 8:05 pm
Where does the FTL come from? I seriously doubt any Force user could really move FTL - TPM Maul once described himself as FTL but it's obvious hyperbole.
Isv
Isv

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on May 30th 2019, 8:32 pm
I mean ROTJ Luke reacted fast enough to cut a full speed speeder out of the sky, and Vergere prolly scales above him, not sure FTL is such a big deal, as I recall both IG-101 and IG-102 moved FTL, Luke as of ANH was described as lightning fast movements, and the aforementioned speeders were said to be faster than sound IIRC, or at the very least capable of breaking the sound barrier which is faster than light, long story short, FTL in SW should be Jedi Knight level, means nothing tbh.
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

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on May 30th 2019, 8:39 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:I mean ROTJ Luke reacted fast enough to cut a full speed speeder out of the sky, and Vergere prolly scales above him, not sure FTL is such a big deal, as I recall both IG-101 and IG-102 moved FTL, Luke as of ANH was described as lightning fast movements, and the aforementioned speeders were said to be faster than sound IIRC, or at the very least capable of breaking the sound barrier which is faster than light, long story short, FTL in SW should be Jedi Knight level, means nothing tbh.

...Did you just say breaking the sound barrier means you're traveling faster than light?
O-Siri
O-Siri

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on May 30th 2019, 8:58 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:I mean ROTJ Luke reacted fast enough to cut a full speed speeder out of the sky, and Vergere prolly scales above him, not sure FTL is such a big deal, as I recall both IG-101 and IG-102 moved FTL, Luke as of ANH was described as lightning fast movements, and the aforementioned speeders were said to be faster than sound IIRC, or at the very least capable of breaking the sound barrier which is faster than light, long story short, FTL in SW should be Jedi Knight level, means nothing tbh.

The MG's were depicted as possessing near lightspeed reflexes, not movement. Physically moving your body is different than processing data. MG's in practice are at best FTE in terms of movement, as per LoE and the Utapau skirmish. And sound isn't anywhere near as fast as light. Luke obviously isn't faster than the speeder, his precog is what gives him the precise timing required to cut it down as it passes him.
'
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin

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on May 30th 2019, 10:08 pm
What's up with the Zallow FTL stuff?
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
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on May 30th 2019, 10:14 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote: or at the very least capable of breaking the sound barrier which is faster than light

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Isv
Isv

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on May 30th 2019, 10:16 pm
I see people caught my joke, congrats, but if you have any idea who I am and what my sense of humor is, you would realize I was being Ironic since the whole fucking discussion is insane.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on May 30th 2019, 10:22 pm
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:What's up with the Zallow FTL stuff?

This
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin

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on May 30th 2019, 10:28 pm
Sorox
Sorox

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on May 31st 2019, 1:01 am
Kilius wrote:Where does the FTL come from? I seriously doubt any Force user could really move FTL - TPM Maul once described himself as FTL but it's obvious hyperbole.
I find this question controversial. There are many statements pointing to the light or at least close to the light speed of an energy weapon. Force users can easily react to lasers and blasters bolts (even if this is due to foresight, they need to move at an appropriate speed to keep up with the shots). Fact File 45 states that most weapons fire at speed of light. In the quote from Incredible Cross-Sections this also complements this. I do not think that every statement about the speed of energy weapons should be ignored, and there are actually many more of them.
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The New Jedi Order: Destiny's Way wrote:For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.

The New Jedi Order: Enemy Lines II - Rebel Stand wrote:Though the transparisteel in the doors at the end of the main hall he could see distant flashes, narrow red streaks heading one way at the speed of light.

Perhaps the most obvious example was presented in Coruscant Nights. The speed of the I-Five laser is indicated as light (300,000 km / s). Darth Vader reacts to it effortlessly.
Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows wrote:I-Five suddenly whipped up his left hand, index finger extended, and fired a laser beam at Jax. The beam splashed off the ionized fire that suddenly coated the length of the blade, which Jax had automatically raised to block the beam. "That's how," I-Five said, "The speed of light is just under three hundred thousand kilometers per second. You are currently seven-point-three meters from me. Your Force-augmented anticipatory reflex action is obviously working fine. You just have to let it."

Coruscant Nights III: Patterns Of The Force wrote:"Tell the droid to give me the bota, Pavan."
"The droid doesn't have it," said I-Five suddenly. Both hands came up in a lethal gesture, lasers firing. The beams sliced toward Vader . . . and stopped mere centimeters from his outstretched hand.
In addition, Anakin and Obi-Wan  have almost a light reaction, and this is clearly not a hyperbole. As for MagnaGuards, the context gives a direct reference to the droid's combat abilities, and here reflexes mean reaction speed, not perception. And if they could not manage to defend themselves against such high-speed attacks, it would be meaningless.
Revenge of the Sith wrote:For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.
There are many incredible speed/reaction/perception feats. For example, many Force users had nanosecond reflexes. It is clear that all this applies only to combat speed and reaction. None of the Force users will run long distances at this speed. I do not presume to assert, but the idea of ​​FTL in Star Wars (Legends) does not look absurd.

OT: Vergere showed almost nothing in battle, but her power in the Force must be great, based on some shows in NJO. IIRC, Palpatine considered her as a potential apprentice. I think she has a big chance of winning, but I’m ready to hear an argument for Zallow.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on May 31st 2019, 1:18 am
Serioiusly though Vegere oneshots

"There are no Jedi here," she said, and made a gesture, eyeflick-swift. Inside Jacen's head, a swirl of interstellar gases fell in upon itself, kindling a protostar behind his eyes. The protostar swelled, gathering power, ramping up intensity until the light inside his skull washed away the woody glow of the chamber in which he hung. In the whited-out blaze, he heard Vergere's voice, cold and precise as the light of a distant quasar.

"I am your guide through the lands of the dead."

Beyond that, he heard and saw no more. A silent supernova erupted within Jacen's brain, and blasted away the universe. Seconds or centuries passed in oblivion. Consciousness swam back into him, and he opened his eyes to find himself still hanging in the Embrace of Pain, Vergere still standing below him, on her face the same alien facsimile of cheerful mockery.

Nothing had changed. Everything had changed. The universe was empty, now.

"What?..." Jacen croaked, his throat raw as though he'd spent days screaming in his sleep. "What have you done to me?..."

"You have no business with the Force, nor it with you. Let you have the Force? The idea!

It must be some kind of human thing... you mammals are so impulsive, so reckless: infants teething on a blaster. No, no, no, little Solo. The Force is much too dangerous for children.

A great deal more dangerous than those ridiculous lightsabers you all seem to like to wave about. So I took it away from you."

The emptiness of the universe howled inside his head. There was nothing out there. Only vast interstellar vacuum. All his training, all his talent, his gift, meant nothing to the limitlessly indifferent cosmos; the Force was only the ghost of a dream from which he had now awakened. Jaina... He thrust desperately into the bond that had always been there, seeking his sister, his twin; he poured his terror and loss into the void that yawned where that bond had always been.

Only silence. Only emptiness. Only lack.

Oh, Jaina Jaina, I'm sorry... With the Force-bond between them shattered, even Jaina would think he was dead. Would know he was dead.

"You.... there's no way.... you can't possibly..."

He barely recognized this tiny, lost-in-the-dark whisper as his own voice.

"But I have. Really, this Force business, you're better off without it. If you're a good boy, I'll give it back when you grow up."

...

Jacen Solo was once more swallowed by agony. Now there is no more Force for Jacen--no more cool breath of life and sanity, no more Jaina, no more life. Where Jacen is, there is only the white.

Source: The New Jedi Order: Traitor
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

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on May 31st 2019, 1:32 am
Severing a Jacen trapped in the Embrace of Pain is not at all the same thing as severing a Ven currently swinging a lightsaber at her head.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on May 31st 2019, 1:56 am
The Embrace had not harmed Jacen yet and was not harming him at the time.

Jacen had also restored himself prior to Vegere wrecking him and places her power on par with his own

But not everything he knew was gone, not while he lived. He was a Jedi. He reached out with his feelings...

"Oh, the Force," Vergere chirped dismissively. "The Force is life; what has life to do with you?"

Suffering and exhaustion had bled away Jacen's capacity for astonishment; he did not care how Vergere knew what he was doing. He opened himself to the Force, let its clean cascade wash through him, dissolving his pain and confusion... and found at his side a connection to the Force as profound as his own. Vergere crackled with power.

- NJO Traitor
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

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on May 31st 2019, 2:03 am
@Greysentinel365 wrote:The Embrace had not harmed Jacen yet and was not harming him at the time.

Jacen had also restored himself prior to Vegere wrecking him and places her power on par with his own

But not everything he knew was gone, not while he lived. He was a Jedi. He reached out with his feelings...

"Oh, the Force," Vergere chirped dismissively. "The Force is life; what has life to do with you?"

Suffering and exhaustion had bled away Jacen's capacity for astonishment; he did not care how Vergere knew what he was doing. He opened himself to the Force, let its clean cascade wash through him, dissolving his pain and confusion... and found at his side a connection to the Force as profound as his own. Vergere crackled with power.

- NJO Traitor

a) He was still trapped. This was not a combat situation.
b) He did not attempt to defend himself as Vergere caught him completely off-guard.

I agree that Vergere is likely more powerful but the assumption that she can replicate this feat in a combat scenario is, simply put, asinine.
xolthol
xolthol

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on May 31st 2019, 2:49 am
No idea. By default I will side with Vergere because of the argument provide for her.
Isv
Isv

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on May 31st 2019, 2:52 am
Grey doing an excellent job of shutting down TOR fanatics, godspeed
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on May 31st 2019, 2:55 am
@SithArchaeologist

He was still trapped. This was not a combat situation.

I fail to see how being in combat would change the application of this ability. Zallow would go for an attack and Vergere would simply raise a hand and that would be it.

He did not attempt to defend himself as Vergere caught him completely off-guard.

An attack like this would catch most anyone off guard. For someone like Zallow. A swipe of the hand or similar motion would demerit a TK attack and the like and he would defend accordingly. Then be wrecked by her actual attack.

So far all you've stated is: "Zallow will defend himself as he will have a chance while Jacen couldn't". Okay. How will he know which defence to use and prove he can mount it.
DoA
DoA

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on May 31st 2019, 8:01 am
Never considered Force users as FTL and afaik those speed feats are attributed to precognition. They know where the bolt is heading so they move to intercept it before the shot is even fired.

Also, if Jedi were fighting at FTL then they'd be swinging their lightsabers a million times in a second (given that light moves at at least 12 inches a nanosecond which is one-billionth of a second) and at those speeds they'd be approaching infinite mass.
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

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on May 31st 2019, 10:16 am
@Greysentinel365 wrote:@SithArchaeologist

He was still trapped. This was not a combat situation.

I fail to see how being in combat would change the application of this ability. Zallow would go for an attack and Vergere would simply raise a hand and that would be it.

He did not attempt to defend himself as Vergere caught him completely off-guard.

An attack like this would catch most anyone off guard. For someone like Zallow. A swipe of the hand or similar motion would demerit a TK attack and the like and he would defend accordingly. Then be wrecked by her actual attack.

So far all you've stated is: "Zallow will defend himself as he will have a chance while Jacen couldn't". Okay. How will he know which defence to use and prove he can mount it.  

What I'm saying is that you can't assume Vergere will be able to replicate her performance in a combat situation. Maybe she will be able to sever Zallow with a wave of her hand, but making that assumption based on a highly circumstantial severing of Jacen seems disingenuous. Force shielding is largely the same no matter what ability is used. Vergere will still have to override Zallow's will and push through his active defense to sever him. Which she very well might be able to do, but this feat is not evidence of that.
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