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IdrisianGraecus
IdrisianGraecus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 7:02 pm
5 Rounds

R1 is sabers where Kanan fought the GI

R2 is Force where Cal fought Malicos

R3 is all out on Kashyyyk at the top of the origin tree

R4 is sabers where Cal fought Malicos

R5 is All out where Kanan fought GI

All Prime iterations (barring Kanan’s oneness), and I realize extra saber and all out are redundant, but I want to see if the environment affects anything.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 8:03 pm
R1: Kanan.
R2: Could go either way but leaning Kanan.
R3: Kanan.
R4: Kanan again.
R5: Kanan.

Kanan is a better swordsman and just as powerful, if not more powerful than Cal. As impressive as Cal is, I've yet to see a feat from him that season 2 Kanan hasn't replicated, and that was before his growth in seasons 3 and 4. I'd argue Cal is only a bit superior to season 2 Kanan in the Force at the best of times, and season 1 Kanan still has feats like moving asteroids, stopping Ezra's velocity and lifting him with the Force, and pinning the GI.
EmperorCaedus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 9:02 pm
Kanan all
IdrisianGraecus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 9:04 pm
IMO Cal sweeps
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 9:05 pm
Cal sweeps
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 9:11 pm
Can see Cal winning in the Force but definitely not sabers. Kanan simply has better feats even before his prime.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 21st 2019, 10:59 pm
Lol Kanan has no feats to best Cal in sabers
EmperorCaedus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 12:23 am
After further consideration, I say Cal
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 7:48 am
@Greysentinel365 wrote:Lol Kanan has no feats to best Cal in sabers
He really does, lol. Fighting the GI as a near-equal at the communications tower and then beating him the next time they fought after being tortured (note that the Grand Inquisitor is considered to be the most skilled and powerful of the inquisitors), stomping Sabine, a Mandalorian capable of beating Gar Saxon in single combat, outmatching the Seventh Brother and damaging his lightsaber, etc. All of these with the exception of the Sabine feat were long before his prime.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 8:17 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@Greysentinel365 wrote:Lol Kanan has no feats to best Cal in sabers
He really does, lol. Fighting the GI as a near-equal at the communications tower and then beating him the next time they fought after being tortured (note that the Grand Inquisitor is considered to be the most skilled and powerful of the inquisitors), stomping Sabine, a Mandalorian capable of beating Gar Saxon in single combat, outmatching the Seventh Brother and damaging his lightsaber, etc. All of these with the exception of the Sabine feat were long before his prime.


Fighting the GI as a near-equal at the communications tower 

Lol. He got one kick in when the GI was toying. Remember what happened next when the GI actually fought seriously? Oh yeah GI stomped him in 5 seconds flat.


then beating him the next time they fought after being tortured


Kanan only had the success he did due to Ezra's extra weapon and a force amp. He never reached that level of power again as his base. + The torture was mostly physiological. Apart from some stiffness from being stuck in that chair for so long. Kanan showed no sign of injury.


stomping Sabine, a Mandalorian capable of beating Gar Saxon in single combat


Lol. This is the same Sabine who was losing to Ezra in spars at that point? Saxon is basically featless as well.

outmatching the Seventh Brother and damaging his lightsaber

The Eighth Brother whose saber was already damaged from Maul prior to this limiting his ability to use it and aiding Kanan? The one who was booting Kanan around at the start of the fight? The reason Maul and Ezra hear Kanan scream in pain and rush to help? Oh and final fun fact is that he also had Ahsoka backing him up. On even ground there's no evidence Kanan can beat any inquisitor. 5th Bro outright ragdolls him, the 7th consistently outduels him.

Cal on the other hand has tooled with both the 2nd and 9th Sister. Dominating them by the end, has a more varied weapon and Kanan has no counter for his slow.

Cal wins. It's not close.
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 9:36 am
Lol. He got one kick in when the GI was toying. Remember what happened next when the GI actually fought seriously? Oh yeah GI stomped him in 5 seconds flat.

Uh, no. The GI was forced on the defensive then immediately responded, then only beat Kanan with the Force. 


Kanan only had the success he did due to Ezra's extra weapon
You're trying to tell me that the Grand Inquisitor, a man who learned how to counter every form, couldn't deal with a bit of Jar'kai?  Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus 1668617588



and a force amp.
The amp was just Kanan letting go of his fear and attachments. It was basically him fighting at his best and not being hindered by the GI's taunts or baiting as he was in basically all of their other fights.



He never reached that level of power again as his base.

He grew after this event, then grew considerably again after his training with the Bendu.


+ The torture was mostly physiological.

Damn, now if only physical damage could hamper someone's abilities in a duel.


Apart from some stiffness from being stuck in that chair for so long. Kanan showed no sign of injury.

He was literally being supported by Ezra into the room, lol.


Lol. This is the same Sabine who was losing to Ezra in spars at that point?

You say that like losing to Ezra is shameful.


Saxon is basically featless as well.

I mean he was a member of Death Watch but point taken.


The Eighth Brother whose saber was already damaged from Maul prior to this
When did Maul damage his lightsaber?



limiting his ability to use it and aiding Kanan?



Kanan literally outmatched him blade to blade on a potent dark side nexus.



The one who was booting Kanan around at the start of the fight?
Wow, getting cheapshotted from behind is your claim to Cal being better? Seriously?



The reason Maul and Ezra hear Kanan scream in pain and rush to help?

He yells, they run over and see him and Ahsoka contending with the other two hugely amped inquisitors. Interesting how his "scream" isn't followed by a shot of him being injured in any way. 


Oh and final fun fact is that he also had Ahsoka backing him up.

Who was busy with the 5th Brother but whatever.


On even ground there's no evidence Kanan can beat any inquisitor.

> Beats the 8th Brother on a potent dark side nexus.

> Can't beat an inquisitor on even ground.


5th Bro outright ragdolls him

Totally relevant when referencing sabers, am I right?


the 7th consistently outduels him.

Except she doesn't, lol. Every time she's gained the advantage over him it's been because of the Force or because of cheap shots (e.g. using her droid). 


Cal on the other hand has tooled with both the 2nd

Who was his superior throughout Fallen Order until the end, after he'd gained new knowledge and a new state of mind. 


and 9th Sister
Who's virtually featless. 

. Dominating them by the end
Almost like how Kanan dominated the 8th Brother on a potent dark side nexus and held off both the 5th and 7th brother and sister at the same time until they used the Force.


has a more varied weapon
More varied than a double-bladed helicopter lightsaber? 


and Kanan has no counter for his slow.

For his...slow?
IdrisianGraecus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 11:49 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:
Lol. He got one kick in when the GI was toying. Remember what happened next when the GI actually fought seriously? Oh yeah GI stomped him in 5 seconds flat.

Uh, no. The GI was forced on the defensive then immediately responded, then only beat Kanan with the Force. 


Kanan only had the success he did due to Ezra's extra weapon
You're trying to tell me that the Grand Inquisitor, a man who learned how to counter every form, couldn't deal with a bit of Jar'kai?  Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus 1668617588



and a force amp.
The amp was just Kanan letting go of his fear and attachments. It was basically him fighting at his best and not being hindered by the GI's taunts or baiting as he was in basically all of their other fights.



He never reached that level of power again as his base.

He grew after this event, then grew considerably again after his training with the Bendu.


+ The torture was mostly physiological.

Damn, now if only physical damage could hamper someone's abilities in a duel.


Apart from some stiffness from being stuck in that chair for so long. Kanan showed no sign of injury.

He was literally being supported by Ezra into the room, lol.


Lol. This is the same Sabine who was losing to Ezra in spars at that point?

You say that like losing to Ezra is shameful.


Saxon is basically featless as well.

I mean he was a member of Death Watch but point taken.


The Eighth Brother whose saber was already damaged from Maul prior to this
When did Maul damage his lightsaber?



limiting his ability to use it and aiding Kanan?



Kanan literally outmatched him blade to blade on a potent dark side nexus.



The one who was booting Kanan around at the start of the fight?
Wow, getting cheapshotted from behind is your claim to Cal being better? Seriously?



The reason Maul and Ezra hear Kanan scream in pain and rush to help?

He yells, they run over and see him and Ahsoka contending with the other two hugely amped inquisitors. Interesting how his "scream" isn't followed by a shot of him being injured in any way. 


Oh and final fun fact is that he also had Ahsoka backing him up.

Who was busy with the 5th Brother but whatever.


On even ground there's no evidence Kanan can beat any inquisitor.

> Beats the 8th Brother on a potent dark side nexus.

> Can't beat an inquisitor on even ground.


5th Bro outright ragdolls him

Totally relevant when referencing sabers, am I right?


the 7th consistently outduels him.

Except she doesn't, lol. Every time she's gained the advantage over him it's been because of the Force or because of cheap shots (e.g. using her droid). 


Cal on the other hand has tooled with both the 2nd

Who was his superior throughout Fallen Order until the end, after he'd gained new knowledge and a new state of mind. 


and 9th Sister
Who's virtually featless. 

. Dominating them by the end
Almost like how Kanan dominated the 8th Brother on a potent dark side nexus and held off both the 5th and 7th brother and sister at the same time until they used the Force.


has a more varied weapon
More varied than a double-bladed helicopter lightsaber? 


and Kanan has no counter for his slow.

For his...slow?
Force Slow is an ability in canon unique to Cal. It slows down opponents significantly, to the point where he's practically freezing blaster bolts Kylo-style, except in a more practical way. His TK is far more developed than Kanan's (being able to TK oneshot Masana Tide, former knight of the order, also known as the ninth sister, who incidentally, is not featless). By the time he retrieves the holocron, Cal literally turns off his saber and chucks the Second Sister across the room. 

And slow is pretty potent, while a literal thirteen year old, Cal pretty much freezes a squad of clones in place with enough time to haul Jaro Topal (a large, heavy Lasat, heavier looking than Zeb, at least) into an escape pod and jettison. Cal is able to TK large Zeffo orbs with ease, and his split saber combined with his ability to easily switch from single to double blade in the midst of combat is a giant advantage for Cal stylistically. 

Furthermore, Kanan is consistently tossed around by Inquisitors, and the moment effing Rukh contended with him near his prime screwed him for life. 

By the way, is stating Malachor is a nexus based on legends, or is it actually in canon?

Cal defeating Malicos on a massive nexus while pre-prime really impresses me more than most of Kanan's feats to be realistic here.
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 11:57 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@IdrisianGraecus Been rushing around the last few days to get housing and seminar stuff sorted out for uni, do you mind if I reply later?
IdrisianGraecus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 12:01 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:@IdrisianGraecus Been rushing around the last few days to get housing and seminar stuff sorted out for uni, do you mind if I reply later?
Sure, no problem. Take your time, I'm fine. Also, is it just me, or did SI get fucked up for a second?
HellfireUnit
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 12:26 pm
Hey there folks, how ya doin?

OT - Cal stomps
EmperorCaedus
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 12:52 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:Hey there folks, how ya doin?

OT - Cal stomps
Welcome back HU
HellfireUnit
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 1:17 pm
Thanks mate
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 1:31 pm
Kanan.
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 1:42 pm
Grey greydolling.
SithSauce
SithSauce

Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 22nd 2019, 2:27 pm
Still haven't finished FO yet, can't say for sure. But this has the potential to be an interesting match up
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 24th 2019, 1:11 pm
Sorry for the late reply, parents came up to my uni and was out all weekend. Now then:
Force Slow is an ability in canon unique to Cal. It slows down opponents significantly, to the point where he's practically freezing blaster bolts Kylo-style, except in a more practical way.
So far, it's been limited to non Force users. No proof it would work the same way on a Force user.



His TK is far more developed than Kanan's (being able to TK oneshot Masana Tide, former knight of the order, also known as the ninth sister, who incidentally, is not featless). By the time he retrieves the holocron, Cal literally turns off his saber and chucks the Second Sister across the room. 

Just saying, he'd sliced off her hand and wounded her back before doing that. The Ninth Sister is also hardly the most skilled inquisitor. There's even a comic with a discussion between her and Vader where she notes that her strength is in reading people's emotions, not combat like some of the others.

As for the Second Sister, She's also caught off guard when he does that because of the turning off saber trick he pulls. She does it back to him in their final fight. Compare that to Kanan, despite being vastly pre-prime, seizing the Grand Inquisitor with the Force and pinning him to the ceiling for several seconds despite the GI being the most dangerous of all the Inquisitors.

 Compare that to Kanan, despite being vastly pre-prime, seizing the Grand Inquisitor with the Force and pinning him to the ceiling for several seconds despite the GI being the most dangerous of all the Inquisitors.

He's also effortlessly restrained Ezra after Ezra went through huge levels of growth.


And slow is pretty potent, while a literal thirteen year old, Cal pretty much freezes a squad of clones in place with enough time to haul Jaro Topal (a large, heavy Lasat, heavier looking than Zeb, at least) into an escape pod and jettison.
Again, not shown to be effective against Force users, and he did that under an incredibly stressful situation that can't necessarily be replicated.




Cal is able to TK large Zeffo orbs with ease,
First, they're gameplay mechanics. Second, he was pushing them, not lifting them. Kanan's TK feats make me think even seasons 1 and 2 Kanan (before he grew massively) could replicate this.


and his split saber combined with his ability to easily switch from single to double blade in the midst of combat is a giant advantage for Cal stylistically. 

I agree, but it's not the first time Kanan's dealt with a similar weapon. Plus, The dual blades might be a problem, but Cal lacks any actual feats with them. His only feats are with a saberstaff and single-bladed lightsaber. 

Furthermore, Kanan is consistently tossed around by Inquisitors,
So is Cal, lol. All of the times Kanan was "tossed around" were before his substantial growth, whereas Cal was actually pushed backwards and off his feet by the 2nd Sister in his (current) prime. 



and the moment effing Rukh contended with him near his prime screwed him for life. 

Rukh hardly contended with him. Rukh's specially trained in an acrobatic fighting style, and landed a single kick after basically bullrushing Kanan. That's like saying Barriss managing to slice apart one of Anakin's lightsabers during their fight on a light side nexus makes Anakin a poor duelist, or alternatively that this makes Barriss a tier 8 duelist. As soon as Kanan lost his lightsaber, he effortlessly ragdolled Rukh. 

Also, if we're using gameplay as feat showings instead of just cutscenes, Cal can be disarmed by a purge trooper. 


By the way, is stating Malachor is a nexus based on legends, or is it actually in canon?

Can't actually remember. We know that nexuses exist in canon, but I can't remember if Malachor is stated to be one. Seems likely though, considering that an ancient Sith city was there and it was the sight of a huge battle.


Cal defeating Malicos on a massive nexus while pre-prime really impresses me more than most of Kanan's feats to be realistic here.

Cal didn't defeat Malicos. Malicos actually ragdolls and pins him and is about to crush him until Merrin saves him. It takes both of them to take down Melicos, and even then it's only through Merrin's hax that he's defeated.
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 24th 2019, 1:47 pm
Ah, I didn't see IG's post underneath that huge quote block. While BoD did a commendable job addressing some of his points I think some of the things in IG's post merit further addressing. Specifically in regards to Kanan's physical abilities and his power as a telekinetic.


Last edited by Syndiciate on November 24th 2019, 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Gianfi
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 24th 2019, 1:53 pm
Kanan wins
BreakofDawn
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 24th 2019, 2:26 pm
I'll also point out that Kanan holding back the explosion wasn't down to Oneness: 

That was with purpose. “In that moment he’s not bound as this material thing that the physicality of sight would be a limitation to him,” Filoni said. “He tells Hera at one point before they go to Malachor, ‘We’ll see each other again.’ I felt that this was a follow through. And it happened because when I was drawing the storyboards for that scene at my desk–a lot of those scenes I’ll sit there and personally pick all the shots and how I want it–I was drawing Kanan and I had drawn his eyes in. I was looking at it and thought, ‘Yeah, he should look at her.’ It happened that way. You have to seize the moment when you’re telling stories, and it was just a fluid thing.”


For all intents and purposes, him "entering Oneness" was only when his sight was returned to him a few seconds before his death, when he made peace with his death and also because Filoni wanted it that way. Filoni even specifies that it's that exact moment that he enters Oneness as his sight is returned to him because the Force is flowing through him. Kanan was going to be holding back the explosion anyway, the Oneness was just introduced as a way to explain his eyesight returning. Personally, I believe that this can be used as a legitimate feat for Kanan. You see him clearly struggling to hold back the explosion (his hands were shaking throughout, especially at the end) and he's clearly just holding it back temporarily, so it's not an outlier. It also indicates how much he's grown in power, and it's part of the reason that I believe his power is about as good as Cal's, if not even better.
HellfireUnit
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

on November 24th 2019, 2:31 pm
Kanan holding the explosion is quite a good feat, I agree.
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Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus Empty Re: Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

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