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Arcann respect thread Empty Arcann respect thread

on Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:10 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Ok, this is my first respect thread so let’s see how it goes. I’m choosing one of my favourite Star Wars characters (Arcann) since it seems he’s a bit underrated on here.


I’m breaking this up into 5 sections: accolades & statements, physicals (strength, speed, agility, etc), skill, power, and scaling. I'll complete the scaling section tomorrow.


Also, shout-out to Ant for letting me use some of the gifs from his old respect thread. Saved me a lot of time and effort.


Without further ado...respect Prince Arcann.


Accolades & statements



Spoiler:


Trained since birth: 


“I had fear beaten out of me before I could walk. I’ll show you how.”

  • Arcann (KOTFE)



Alongside Thexan and chained Vaylin, Arcann as a young child was far more powerful than Senya:


"Even as children - even with Vaylin's power restrained - the three of them together were still far more powerful than me. I couldn't force them to go."
―Senya (Star Wars: The Old Republic)


The Outlander acknowledged Arcann’s power:


“I sense that you have a strong connection to the Force.”

  • The Outlander (KOTFE).



Lana Beniko revered Arcann’s strength. It’s worth noting that Lana has encountered ridiculously powerful Force users, including the HoT, Vitiate, Revan, Darth Marr, and Satele Shan, making her indirect praise of his abilities even more significant considering the threshold she would naturally have for impressive power levels:


(Vaylin’s) strength in the Force is astounding, even for her family.

  • Lana Beniko (KOTFE).



The Outlander believes that Arcann is nearly invincible, as least when compared to him:


“He’s overconfident, but nearly as invincible as he thinks he is.”

  • The Outlander (KOTFE).



Satele Shan and Darth Marr revered Arcann’s power, believing that the pre-training Outlander needed to adopt a completely new perspective and create a new weapon to even stand a chance:


"Arcann and his Knights learned to use the Force in a different way from Jedi and Sith. It's why we couldn't truly defeat them."
"I've defeated many."
"Don't confuse them with Arcann... All we ask is that you listen with an open mind - and learn from our failures."
―The Outlander and Satele Shan (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
“Victory over Arcann requires new perspectives...and new weapons.”
-Darth Marr (Star Wars: The Old Republic)


“That blade is part of you now. The next time you face Arcann in battle, he will not be ready for you.”
-Darth Marr (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
Arcann is frequently cited as being second only to Vaylin during KOTFE. Note that Valkorion is believed dead at this point, and isn’t in consideration:


“Don’t confuse them with Arcann, and his sister is another problem entirely.”
“Heed what you saw. Behind Arcann stands Vaylin.”
“Her strength in the Force is astounding, even for her family.”

  • Lana Beniko and the Outlander, KOTFE).




Both Lana and Valkorion believes that Arcann’s survival would doom the Alliance:


“Extermination is safer. The Alliance can’t risk war against both of Valkorion’s spawn.”

  • Lana Beniko, KOTET.



“Arcann will return.”
“To help me defeat Vaylin, or to break my neck?”
“To destroy your Alliance.”

  • Valkorion and the Outlander, KOTET).



Valkorion believed that Vaylin and Arcann’s combined strength would require him and the Outlander teaming up to defeat them, at least in his weakened state:


“We must deal with my errant son and daughter before they ruin everything.”
“I knew you wanted something. You can’t stop them alone.”
“They are deadly, and worse, lack discipline...Do not underestimate their threat. It will take both of us to undo the damage they can inflict.”

  • Valkorion and the Outlander (KOTFE). 



Valkorion believed that the Outlander didn’t stand a chance against Arcann:


“My son is too strong, you need my power. Only together can we strike him down.”

  • Valkorion (KOTFE).



“I will not allow you to squander this opportunity. We must act!”

  • Valkorion (KOTFE). 



“The Force is with you, Jedi, but it will not defeat my son. It never could.”

  • Valkorion (KOTFE).



Arcann is praised as having a “nearly unbeatable” defense:


"Arcann's prodigious skill with the Force and training with both the Knights and Scions of Zakuul gives him a nearly unbeatable defense."
―Star Wars: The Old Republic




Physicals




Spoiler:

Strength


Physically overpowered and stomped numerous Sith warriors at once, including Darth Atroxa:


Arcann respect thread 4873227-0789302116-Ri02M



Blocked strikes from fully fledged Zakuul knights:


Arcann respect thread 4873144-7560215125-qdfyr



Arcann physically dominates the Outlander for much of their lightsaber fight. It’s worth noting that the Outlander had just seen HK-55 destroyed, and was presumably rage amped:


Arcann respect thread 4874427-2341793326-q9UKl



Fights evenly with a considerably stronger Outlander who caught him off-guard with new tricks and with a weapon fuelled with his own powers plus that of Darth Marr’s and Satele’s:


Arcann respect thread Tumblr_pfzbqxtY2S1xrwrhfo3_500



Speed


Appears to teleport more than once:


Arcann respect thread 4873042-4367183063-BYUpZ

Arcann respect thread 4873561-1628709057-njhzo

Out-manoeuvres the Outlander, displaying greater speed and skill, as well as control over the battle:


Arcann respect thread 4874425-8177709120-rhnwu





Durability


Easily Arcann’s best area for physicals. 


As a child, he tanks being meleed by fully fledged Zakuul knights: 


Arcann respect thread 4873144-7560215125-qdfyr


Tanks multiple lightsaber slashes with little issue:

Arcann respect thread 5372620-0199154372-giphy

Tanks being slashed across the torso:


Arcann respect thread 5372621-7450003333-giphy



Seemingly no-sells a fall of incalculable distance: 


Arcann respect thread 4873793-3948396815-48737

Arcann respect thread AcMXQL

Tanks a giant column falling on him with no lasting damage:


Arcann respect thread 5682502-7893875493-48737



Survives tons of machinery falling on him while heavily wounded:


Arcann respect thread 5372644-5766381374-giphy



Survived for days with nothing but some makeshift medical machinery and Senya’s limited Force healing to sustain him:


Just coming to Ord Mantell had been a risk, but it was one she was forced to accept. She’d done her best to tend to her son, but Arcann’s injuries were beyond her ability to heal. If she couldn’t find someone more skilled to help him, he wouldn’t last much longer.

  • SWTOR (A Mother’s Hope)



Tanks a Force blast from start of KOTET Outlander despite being heavily wounded and delirious:


https://youtu.be/D2pZknVwOXs?t=1470


Is only momentarily dazed by Vaylin throwing a speeder into him while he was distracted:


https://youtu.be/XrkBWO6liLo?t=46


Is only knocked out by a lightning blast from full power Valkorion:

https://i.imgur.com/M5qzcrn.mp4


Is only knocked out by an unchained Vaylin’s Force wave:


Arcann respect thread 5757797-1893750186-JL1OP




Skill



Spoiler:

As a child, briefly holds off a fully fledged Zakuul knight with a stick:


Arcann respect thread 4873144-7560215125-qdfyr



Effortlessly stomps numerous Sith, including Darth Atroxa:


Arcann respect thread 4873227-0789302116-Ri02M



Fights evenly with and actually holds the upper hand against an enraged Outlander:


Arcann respect thread 4874427-2341793326-q9UKl



Despite being surprised by the Outlander’s power growth (caused by his new training and perspective) and their new weapon with the joint powers of himself, Satele and Darth Marr, Arcann still fights evenly with the Outlander:

Arcann respect thread Tumblr_pfzbqxtY2S1xrwrhfo3_500

It should be noted that the Outlander only gains the upper hand when the ship sways: 


Arcann respect thread 5372620-0199154372-giphy



Matches chained Vaylin in power and skill for several minutes, with neither gaining the upper hand:


Arcann respect thread 5763986-3629405226-EoD3K

Arcann respect thread 5763999-0878187068-vJI0V

It should also be noted that Vaylin massively improved from her first duel with Senya onwards, with this fight further indicating Vaylin's growth as a swordsman.


Holds his own against the (prime) Outlander for a short amount of time. This is significant considering the Outlander’s enormous growth, going from being chained Vaylin tier as of chapter 1 of KOTET to being unchained Vaylin’s peer/superior as of chapter 6-9. Holding his own against an immensely more powerful combatant, even one who rarely uses the Force in combat:


https://youtu.be/XrkBWO6liLo?t=95


He and Senya tear through countless Skytroopers:


https://youtu.be/MdkDFIMofwk?t=1160



Power



Spoiler:

Ragdolls Heskal, who gave the Outlander an intense fight:


Arcann respect thread 4873042-4367183063-BYUpZ



Casually disarms the Outlander:

Arcann respect thread 4873521-9966223666-Ix17m

Ragdolls the Outlander, blasting them backwards into a wall:
Arcann respect thread 4873049-1766022748-zhOaT


Ragdolls the Outlander repeatedly:

Arcann respect thread 4873116-3155488754-U0L-r

Conceals himself from the Outlander: 
Arcann respect thread 4873561-1628709057-njhzo

In arguably his most impressive showing, holds off lightning from a Valkorion possessed Outlander strong enough to nearly kill the host:


Arcann respect thread 4873513-5157821910-zlhl9Arcann respect thread 4873517-2305538999-R5p5Q



What makes this feat even impressive is that the lightning was capable of killing all life surrounding the Spar:



"Incredible... life signs abord all ships in the Spar's proximity have been neutralized [by Valkorion's lightning]."

―SCOPRIO (Star Wars: The Old Republic)



Lana later determined the death toll caused by the lightning to be in the hundreds:



Lana Beniko

Asylum casualty report

It is difficult to ascertain precise numbers. As a shadow port, Asylum didn't have a government that cared about up-to-date population records. But SCORPIO kept a tally of deaths she witnessed, and we're looking at casualties in the thousands. That's not including the hundreds caught in Valkorion's blast outside the Control Spar. While not Ziost-level numbers, I hope the internal damage you suffered will caution you from using his power in the future. The cost is too great. I didn't wake you up so that Valkorion could finish the job the carbon poisoning started. Whatever he tells you, don't forget that Valkorion is the threat that we set out to destroy. He's a master manipulator who has been pulling strings for centuries. You cannot trust him.

Sacrifices






While heavily wounded, releases a Force wave powerful enough to knock down start of KOTET Outlander, Senya, and incapacitate Lana and Theron:


https://youtu.be/2xD8qyVJHek?t=154


While heavily wounded, delirious and confused, his anger gives him the strength to topple a huge column, shattering it into pieces in the process:


https://youtu.be/6m_mLZSk3KI?t=352

Thanks for reading. The final part will be up soon.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level One
Level One

Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:47 pm
Hey all, this is the final part of my Arcann respect thread and will cover his scaling from other notable characters, including (spirit) Valkorion and Vaylin. I see no merit in covering his ridiculous superiority to the KOTFE Outlander considering the amount of times that’s been covered, so I’m focusing on the other members of his family for now.


Let’s begin.


To start, let’s begin with what is arguably his greatest feat to date: his struggle against Valkorion.


As we see in KOTFE chapter 8, one of the possible player options is for the player character to accept Valkorion’s power to try and stop Arcann once and for all. 



Arcann respect thread 4873513-5157821910-zlhl9

After being disarmed by the initial assault as a result of the drastic power growth within the Outlander once Valkorion takes over, Arcann hurriedly creates a Force barrier to hold off Valkorion’s lightning. Not only does he do this successfully, but he forces the Valkorion-possessed Outlander to intensify the assault:

Arcann respect thread 4873517-2305538999-R5p5Q


Now, why is this impressive? Well first, let’s examine the initial blast and its impact. 


The initial waves that Arcann was holding off were incredibly potent. In fact, they were capable of frying hundreds of civilians in the Spar’s proximity, killing all of them:



"Incredible... life signs abord all ships in the Spar's proximity have been neutralized [by Valkorion's lightning]."


―SCOPRIO (Star Wars: The Old Republic)


Lana Beniko


-

Asylum casualty report


It is difficult to ascertain precise numbers. As a shadow port, Asylum didn't have a government that cared about up-to-date population records. But SCORPIO kept a tally of deaths she witnessed, and we're looking at casualties in the thousands. That's not including the hundreds caught in Valkorion's blast outside the Control Spar. While not Ziost-level numbers, I hope the internal damage you suffered will caution you from using his power in the future. The cost is too great. I didn't wake you up so that Valkorion could finish the job the carbon poisoning started. Whatever he tells you, don't forget that Valkorion is the threat that we set out to destroy. He's a master manipulator who has been pulling strings for centuries. You cannot trust him.


As we have seen in the past, the destruction of Valkorion’s host body has always weakened him. As a result of the Barsen’Thor actions, Valkorion had been weakened considerably before his climactic duel with the HoT in act 3. The Barsen’Thor weakened the Emperor by destroying his “Children”, who through their link with Vitiate had a considerable share of his power:


Despite the Jedi Council's best efforts, only a little is known of the so-called Children of the Emperor. Infants of all species taken before the Sith Emperor, the children are infused with the Emperor's strength, sharing some measure of his thoughts and power for the rest of their lives. They become the Emperor's eyes and ears, and--should the Emperor focus his presence upon them--his puppets. It is believed that the children have some way to hide their dark presence from Jedi senses, meaning they can exist undetected within the Republic.


  • Children of the Emperor (Consular).



Likewise, Vitiate was nearly destroyed when the HoT killed his physical form (his Voice), much like the Emperor’s Wrath before him:


The Emperor was all but destroyed by the Hero of Tython on Dromund Kaas. That's why he needed to be "reborn" by consuming all life on Ziost.


  • From (SWTOR content contributor: HALL HOOD)



Dispatching physical forms associated with Vitiate appears to considerably weaken him, long before the HoT faced him:


“I will give you the Emperor’s coordinates. Even in his weakened state, you are no match for him.”


  • Tol Braga, Corellia.



Whenever someone with Valkorion’s essence or power has been struck down, it has as a result weakened him. The HoT’s actions came as a result of multiple different efforts, from the Barsen’Thor exposing and defeating his children, the EW killing his previous vessel, to the HoT finally dispatching him.


Similarly, Valkorion’s ‘death’ on Zakuul serves as another case of his body being destroyed and weakening him, requiring him to “require new weapons” to restore himself to full strength and take control:


“I would hollow out your mind...but first, I required new weapons to conquer your psyche”


  • Valkorion, KOTET.


Now, how does this relate to Arcann? Well, that answer is simple. Arcann’s parity to spirit Valkorion, to the point that the Valkorion had to unleash everything he had and nearly kill the Outlander in the process just to break his barrier and yet still fail to even injure him, has numerous implications for Arcann. For one, it suggests that Arcann could replicate this TK feat, for example:

Arcann respect thread 6757096-6101124393-64629



As such, Arcann can be scaled off of pre-KOTET Valkorion, having been shown to be able to replicate virtually every feat he himself has, from holding off his lightning for a considerable amount of time despite it being potent enough to kill hundreds, to ragdolling Heskal, to nearly one-shotting the Outlander had HK-55 not sacrificed himself.


Moving on, Arcann has also shown incredibly close parity to chained Vaylin, to the point that despite her massive improvements as a swordsman (from being handily defeated by a holding back Senya to nearly defeating her to fighting evenly with KOTET Arcann) and alleged superiority in the Force she was completely unable to defeat him:

Arcann respect thread 5763986-3629405226-EoD3K

Arcann respect thread 5763999-0878187068-vJI0V


As shown here, the two were virtually stalemating, exchanging lightsaber blows and Force attacks with neither gaining the advantage or showing any kind of superiority or power edge. This is even more significant considering chained Vaylin’s feats, which include


Ripping apart a multi-storey generator and throwing it like a missile:

Arcann respect thread 57591110 Arcann respect thread 49080510


Breaking free from Valkorion’s Force grip:



Arcann respect thread Oj8zHH


Ragdolling Lana Beniko, who herself was immensely powerful:



Arcann respect thread 5764722-6783864133-NxZE7


Tearing apart large structures: 

Arcann respect thread 5763988-3140026181-UOW39

And effortlessly ragdolling an entire squad of Skytroopers with zero effort, to name but a few:



https://i.imgur.com/fAq7HxE.mp4


And yet despite the numerous indications from characters like Valkorion, Lana, Satele, Darth Marr and the Outlander, Arcann held enough parity with her not only to avoid being dominated, but also to completely stalemate her in the Force.


Now, one argument I’ve heard against this is that Arcann is a superior lightsaber duelist, which allowed him to stalemate Vaylin. Respectfully, I completely disagree with this due to Vaylin’s clear skill growth.


As we see in KOTFE chapter 8, Vaylin is pretty handily defeated by Senya, who’s trying not to hurt her:

Arcann respect thread Vaylin-gif-3


Fast-forward to just before KOTET, the two rematch, and it’s much closer, though Senya’s discipline grants her a small edge:


Senya was close enough to stare into Vaylin’s eyes. They burned with hate, pure and savage; all trace of the child that had once clung to her mother’s side was gone. Shocked by the intensity of her daughter’s vicious loathing, Senya was forced to look away. In that instant Vaylin dropped down into a crouch, swinging her pike in a wide, sweeping arc meant to cut her mother’s legs out from under her. But Senya had already sprung clear with a graceful backflip, landing in a defensive stance to meet Vaylin’s next assault.

“Afraid to stand and fight me, Mother?” Vaylin asked with a sly smile. The flames burning all around them cast strange, flickering shadows across her face.

Instead of replying, Senya braced herself for the coming charge, quietly confident in her own skills. They’d clashed once before, and Senya had prevailed: her daughter might be stronger in the Force, but Senya had spent decades mastering the art of hand-to-hand combat. If Vaylin wanted to fight her, the outcome was inevitable.

As expected, Vaylin rushed at her with unrestrained fury, the pike becoming a spinning, whirling instrument of death in her nimble hands. Senya parried the initial flurry, redirecting each blow with subtle counters and deflections that allowed her to slow the momentum of Vaylin’s charge. Then she switched from defense to offense, retaliating with her own sequence of quick cuts and thrusts meant not to kill, but to drive her daughter back, keeping her off balance and in perpetual retreat.

But instead of giving ground, Vaylin countered with another vicious assault, putting Senya on the defensive again. Surprised, the older woman staggered back, ducking to the side as the pike skimmed past her cheek close enough for her to feel the heat of the glowing blade. It clipped the tip of her shoulder, carving a small chunk from her armor.

As the opening stages show, this fight is completely different to their first. Instead of being outmanoeuvred and outskilled by Senya, Vaylin actually manages to overwhelm her considerable Soresu defences, landing several hits on her.


The next blow nearly took her leg below the knee – at the very last instant Senya snatched her foot clear. But though she’d spared her limb, she was off balance and out of position. Vaylin pounced, hacking and slashing at her mother; what she lacked in technique she more than made up for in speed and relentless aggression.

Here again, Vaylin nearly beats Senya in a single offence. In fact, her combat style is somewhat reminiscent of that of Anakin’s; less focused on technique and skill, and more on completely overwhelming her opponent.



Reflexes and instincts honed over thirty years of training allowed Senya to keep the killing blow at bay… but only barely. She ducked and darted to the left, leaping over one of the raging walls of fire crisscrossing the camp.

All that saves Senya is her experience edge, which by the time she fights Arcann has been virtually mitigated.


She’s stronger now. Faster. More confident.


But there were still flaws in Vaylin’s form. Now that she had measured her opponent, Senya saw subtle imperfections she could exploit.


Her daughter leaped over the wall of fire between them and charged again. She was pressing the action, trying to overwhelm Senya and go for the quick kill. On the next pass, Senya let the tip of her lightsaber dip, offering a brief opening. As expected, Vaylin seized on the sudden vulnerability. But Senya was ready; anticipating her daughter’s strike she sidestepped the blow and got in close enough to throw an elbow into Vaylin’s chest, staggering her back.


Vaylin caught her footing a step before she stumbled into the nearby flames. Enraged, she rushed her mother again, redoubling her efforts. Senya continued to feint and bait her opponent, using her own aggression against her to control the battle. She could sense her daughter’s frustration mounting as the battle dragged on – her attacks became more desperate, more frenzied. Time and time again Vaylin saw what she thought was an opportunity to end the battle in a single blow, only to have it snatched away at the last instant by her elusive foe.


Fatigue began to take its toll. The blinding speed of Vaylin’s attacks slowed ever so slightly as her muscles began to ache. She was lunging and flailing, off balance and out of sorts. Both combatants were breathing heavily, but unlike her daughter, Senya had been pacing herself, holding something in reserve.


“You still fight with too much raw emotion,” Senya grunted as she parried another blow, hoping there was still some part of the little girl she had raised inside the savage creature in front of her. “It clouds your mind.”


I’ve seen this as a case for Senya being superior, but I disagree. Senya at this point is tiring herself despite using a form devoted to energy conservation, and is notably only able to gain the advantage because Vaylin (again, like Anakin for example) allows her emotions to get the better of her and begins making stupid mistakes. 

Even if this doesn’t convince you, we see Vaylin’s raw skill being applied again on Nathema, where bereft of the Force she stomps three heavily mutated Acklays as though she’s toying with them:

Arcann respect thread 5757638-4349382525-jMAmn


On top of this, her skill growth is shown in her fight with Arcann, where though the Force is used, she does incredibly well against him in sabers. 


Despite this growth and Vaylin’s superiority in the Force, Arcann is close enough to her to make it so she can’t just dominate him with the Force, again implying that by this point the gap between them is very small.


In conclusion, Arcann has shown impressive parity to both chained Vaylin and spirit Valkorion (pre-chapter 9), replicating or matching them in numerous situations. As such, I believe that the gap between them is very small by KOTET (Arcann’s prime), with the chain being something like this:


Full power Valkorion >> unchained Vaylin >>> Chained Vaylin > spirit Valkorion ~ KOTET Arcann. 


I recognise that people will disagree with this, and that’s completely fine. However, hopefully this will encourage some more consideration of Arcann’s parity with chained Vaylin and more respect for him on the site.


Thanks for reading!

Arcann respect thread C02e51574a4b2f7719ac6cc1a6d9b553
BreakofDawn
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:54 pm
Tagging some people who might be interested, sorry if not: @ILS @DarthAnt66 @Azronger @CuckedCurry.
xolthol
xolthol

Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:56 pm
Good work. Happy to see a Arcann RT
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:39 pm
@xolthol wrote:Good work. Happy to see a Arcann RT
Yeah, he seems to be pretty underrated on the board by some users. I'd peg him somewhere near Dooku in raw power.
Praxis
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:53 am
Very nice. Although I have some relatively minor disagreements especially in regard to the scaling between Arcann and spirit Valk, I think overall this was very well-done.
Azronger
Azronger
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:18 am
Good work. I'd suggest improving the formatting, though. As of now it's kind of clunky. Get scans and YouTube links for some statements and try a more stylistic font.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:46 pm
Good shit.
Word Salad
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:57 am
Nice. Besides Valkorion himself he's definitely my favourite member of Valk's family.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus

Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

on Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:12 pm
Arcann FTW
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Arcann respect thread Empty Re: Arcann respect thread

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