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Azronger
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Darth Plagueis vs Darth Tyranus - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Plagueis vs Darth Tyranus

on November 24th 2019, 10:27 am
@MasterCilghal wrote:Yoda at the start of 19 bby, who is at the very least equal to Plagueis, if not better.

Substantiation needed.

First, it’s important to note that Dooku’s powers grew over the clone wars to a “noticeable” extent:

Darth Plagueis vs Darth Tyranus - Page 2 E67e0e10
(Credit to Goat)

Canon source, not Legends. Regardless, Fact File 116 does state that Dooku's powers did develop over the course of the war, so it's not really an issue.
Azronger
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on November 24th 2019, 10:30 am
On topic, Plagueis wins in less than 12 seconds, which was the time required for Anakin to smash the Count. Seeing as Plagueis would be a level 9 on the Gillard scale per his proximity to Sidious, he should be firmly out of Dooku's league here.
Jake
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on December 14th 2019, 8:49 am
@Azronger Canon source, not Legends. Regardless, Fact File 116 does state that Dooku's powers did develop over the course of the war, so it's not really an issue.

The series clearly isn't only Canon. Perhaps the best way to show why it isn't, is to simply list off the contents of the Relaunched Fact Files, because this isn't clear in just a handful of issues;

Issue #01 (view)
• Galen Marek/Shaak Ti/Maris Brood fights are described in 'Planets & Locations’. Some images are pulled straight from The Force Unleashed game and its art. 

Issue #02 (view)
• The Yoda/Chu’unthor/Dathomir incident is mentioned in the ‘Humans & Aliens’ section.
• Callista Ming and Luke escaping from Hoth is in ‘Planets & Locations’.
• Maul meditating from the 2000 Dark Horse Darth Maul comic is in ‘Planets & Locations’.

Issue #03 (view)
• Grievous’ Expanded Universe backstory - including partner Ronderu lij Kummar - is in 'Humans & Aliens'.

Issue #06 (view)
• The Battle of Ruusan, the Battle of Thule, and the Battle of Ohma D’un are all in ‘Battles & Events’.
• The Dark Reaper, Daakman Barrek, Durge, and Dooku’s fight with Bulq & Tholme on Bakura are also mentioned in the ‘Battles & Events’ section. The images included are from the 2002 The Clone Wars game, and The Republic comics. 

Issue #08 (view)
• Leebo and Dash Rendar’s antics are in ‘Droids & Machines’
• Proxy, Starkiller, Rahm Kota, and Juno Eclipse are in ‘Droids & Machines’, with much of the story from The Force Unleashed included.  
• The Yinchorri Crisis and characters like Naeshahn and Ebor Taulk are in 'Humans & Aliens'. The images are from Jedi Council: Acts of War, and The Force Unleashed game.

Issue #12 (view)
• Four pages in 'Battles & Events' are dedicated to explaining the Stark Hyperspace War, with all images taken from the old comics.
• The background of Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, and the Yavin IV temples are in 'Planets & Locations', with images included from the Tales of the Jedi comics.

Issue #14 (view)
• The events of the Jedi vs Sith comics and Darth Bane trilogy are in 'Battles & Events'.
• Jaster Mereel and Jango's Expanded Universe backstory are referenced in 'Humans & Aliens', as is the Battle of Galidraan.

Issue #15 (view)
• The events of the young Boba Fett novels are referenced in 'Planets & Locations' as are the Great Sith War, the Force Harvester, Exar Kun, Galen's fight with Kazdan Paratus, and Galen bringing down a Star Destroyer. Images are taken from The Force Unleashed game.

Issue #17 (view)
• Two pages in 'Humans & Aliens' are dedicated to the rivalry between Darth Vader and Prince Xizor, images are taken from the Shadows of the Empire comics.

Issue #18 (view)
• Mighella, the Vos/Infinity Gate incident, and Yoda vs Nightsisters are in 'Battles & Events', with images taken from the 2000 Dark Horse Darth Maul comics.
• Dooku's fight with Yoda on Vjun is referenced multiple times in 'Weapons & Technology'.

Issue #19 (view)
• There are four pages in 'Droids & Machines' dedicated to the exploits of C-3PX, with images taken from Legends comics.

Issue #20 (view)
• The events of the 2000's Underworld: The Yavin Vassilika are in 'Battles & Events', with images taken from the comic.

Issue #21 (view)
• Four pages in 'Battles & Events' are dedicated to the story of Shadows of the Empire.
• The events of Emissaries to Malastare are referenced in 'Humans & Aliens'.
• Dash Rendar, the Outrider, and the YT-2400 Light Freighter are in 'Starships & Vehicles'. Images are taken from the Republic comics, and Shadows of the Empire comic.

Issue #22 (view)
• Kopecz, Kas'im, Qordis, Fohargh, Kaan, Githany, Bane's backstory, and much of the story of the Darth Bane trilogy is told in 'Humans & Aliens'.
• Legends comic images of Wedge Antilles are used in 'Humans & Aliens'.
• The events of the early Vos/Nightsister Republic comics are in 'Planets & Locations', with images pulled straight from the comic.

Issue #23 (view)
• Tyvokka, and the Stark Hyperspace War are referenced in 'Humans & Aliens', with images from the Republic comics.
• The Battle of Ruusan, Lord Kaan, Lord Hoth, the Thought Bomb, and the Valley of the Jedi are referenced in 'Planets & Locations', with images pulled from Legends Jedi vs. Sith comics.

Issue #25 (view)
• Siri Tachi, and the events of Cloak of Deception are mentioned in 'Humans & Aliens'.
• Various Republic comics images of Devaronians are used in 'Planets & Locations'.

Issue #26 (view)
• Aurra Sing's exploits in the Republic comics are in 'Humans & Aliens', all images taken from the comic.

Issue #27 (view)
• Images of Aurra Sing in 'Weapons & Technology' are pulled from the Republic comics.

Issue #28 (view)
• Six pages in 'Battles & Events' dedicated to explaining Splinter of the Mind's Eye, using images from the comic.

Issue #30 (view)
• The Battle of Nar Shadaa is in 'Battles & Events', with all Legends images used.

Issue #33 (view)
• Arani Korden, Deel Surool, and Dane Rorworr are in 'Battles Events', with descriptions and images taken from Legends comics.

Issue #37 (view)
• Darth Maul defeating the Black Sun is in 'Battles & Events', with all Legends comic images used. 

Issue #38 (view)
• The events of 'Prelude to the Rebellion' and other early Republic comics are in 'Humans & Aliens', with images pulled from the comics.

Issue #39 (view)
• The events of the Jedi Apprentice series, as well as Republic comics featuring Obi-Wan are in 'Humans & Events', with many Legends images used.

Issue #40 (view)
• Images of Cerea in 'Planets & Locations' are taken from the Legends Prelude to the Rebellion.

Issue #42 (view)
• The mission to Ansion and all the events of Approaching Storm are in 'Battles & Events'.

Issue #43 (view)
• Prince Xizor's Virago is described in 'Starships & Vehicles' with images taken from the Shadows of the Empire comics.

Issue #44 (view)
• Volfe Karkko, Aayla Secura's backstory, training, mission to Ryloth, and fall to the dark side are in 'Humans & Aliens'. All descriptions and images are taken from the early Republic comics. 

Issue #46 (view)
• Xizor's schemes, his meeting with Leia, and his Palace and Skyhook being destroyed are in 'Humans & Aliens', with images taken from the Shadows of the Empire comics.

Issue #47 (view)
• Casinga Palpatine and the events of the Plagueis novel are in 'Humans & Aliens', including many Legends images.

Issue #50 (view)
• The life and death of Tyvokka is in 'Human's & Aliens', with all images pulled from Legends comics.
• A Legends comic image of a TIE Interceptor is used in 'Starships & Vehicles'.

Issue #51 (view)
• A'Sharad and Sharad Hett's adventures on Tatooine and the events of the early Republic comics are in 'Humans & Aliens', including Sharad's death, A'Sharad's training, mission to Malastare and duel with Aurra Sing. All images are pulled from the original comics.
• Legends images of Exar Kun, Massassi, and Yavin IV temples are used in 'Planets & Locations', as well as descriptions of Kun's alchemical creations, Kun's final stand, and Naga Sadow's ship.

Issue #54 (view)
• All the events of Approaching Storm are in ‘Humans & Aliens’. 

Issue #55 (view)
• Micah Giiet and the Yinchorri Crisis are mentioned in 'Humans & Aliens'.
• The backstory of Dash Rendar is in 'Humans & Aliens'. All images are from the Expanded Universe.

Issue #58 (view)
• Pages of Legends images of Gardulla the Hutt are in ‘Humans & Aliens’. 

Issue #59 (view)
• A Legends comic image of the J9 Worker Drone is used in 'Droids & Machines'.

Issue #61 (view)
• The Mission to Ansion from Approaching Storm is in ‘Humans & Aliens’. 
• The Bulgan Kyakhta are mentioned in ‘Humans & Aliens’. 
• Images of the Dagobah Python, Morp, Nharpira and various other Dagobah wildlife are pulled from Legends comics and guidebooks.

Issue #62 (view)
• Dreddon the Hutt and Antonin are in ‘Humans & Aliens’.
• The Infant of Shaa and the events of the Legends Jango Fett and Zam Wesell comics are in ‘Humans & Aliens’, with pages of images from the original comics.
 
Issue #64 (view)
• The events of the Darth Bane trilogy are detailed in ‘Humans & Aliens’, with Legends images used.
'Planets & Locations' uses Legends comic images of Wes Janson and Jek Porkins.

Issue #65 (view)
• Vergere, Zonama Sekot and the events of Rogue Planet are in ‘Humans & Aliens’.
• The Mission to Ansion from Approaching Storm is in ‘Humans & Aliens’. 

Issue #68 (view)
• The Yinchorri crisis is mentioned multiple times in ‘Humans & Aliens’.

Issue #74 (view)
• The exploits of Dash Rendar and the death of Xizor are in 'Humans & Aliens'. All images are taken from the old Shadows of the Empire comic books. 

Issue #76 (view)
• The story from 1999 comic The Bounty Hunters: Scoundrel’s Wages is described in ‘Battles & Events’. All art is from the original comic.

- -

If you oppose this from "It was released post Disney buy-out" or "It references Disney Canon stories", there's plenty of material sent out after the buy-out date and that include Canon content despite being considered part of the Legends continuity, namely; Star Wars: Son of Dathomir, Star Wars Comic Magazine Volume 7, multiple issues of Star Wars: The Clone Wars Magazine, multiple issues of Star Wars Insider Magazine, Star Wars in 100 Scenes, and Star Wars: The Jedi and the Force. Material being Legends even post-buyout with Canon references isn't unprecedented or even uncommon - the opposite really.

The release date argument, the Canon content excuse, and the idea that upwards of a hundred Expanded Universe events were referenced and pictured by accident or just happened to slip by authority is very silly. To accept this as Canon-only is to accept all the above as apart of Disney Star Wars' intended vision, something that's obviously not true. Ignoring the Star Wars Rebels entries, the Relaunched run of Star Wars Fact File should be seen as Legends.
CuckedCurry
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on December 14th 2019, 9:09 am
I know I always drone on about it, but man it still baffles me that you have a relative no-name like Darth Marr besting Dooku when you’re providing all this Dooku hype...
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on December 14th 2019, 9:15 am
@CuckedCurry wrote:I know I always drone on about it, but man it still baffles me that you have a relative no-name like Darth Marr besting Dooku when you’re providing all this Dooku hype...
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Azronger
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on December 14th 2019, 10:26 am
@Jake I'm aware the relaunched Fact Files feature Legends content well after the split, but it also has Canon-exclusive material like content from Rebels. So the default assumption for any issues that succeed the split should be that they're Canon in places where they're not expressly Legends. Count Dooku isn't a Legends-only character, so unless the issue in question isn't referencing his Legends appearances, the default assumption should be that the material written about him applies to only to Canon.
Jake
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on December 14th 2019, 11:26 am
@Azronger Very little is expressly Legends in this. The Clone Wars show references are mixed in with old Expanded Universe material - like Dooku’s TCW images and accomplishments on the same page as the Dark Reaper or Republic comic fights - implying that the Clone Wars show is meant to fit in with the Legends parts of the Fact File, as opposed to Rebels which exists on its own without such overlap. 

The idea that we have to split the TCW references of - and within - each Fact File so that some apply to Canon only and some only to Legends, seems overly complicated, unnecessary, and not at all what was intended.
The Witness
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on December 14th 2019, 1:21 pm
@Jake wrote:@Azronger Very little is expressly Legends in this. The Clone Wars show references are mixed in with old Expanded Universe material - like Dooku’s TCW images and accomplishments on the same page as the Dark Reaper or Republic comic fights - implying that the Clone Wars show is meant to fit in with the Legends parts of the Fact File, as opposed to Rebels which exists on its own without such overlap. 

The idea that we have to split the TCW references of - and within - each Fact File so that some apply to Canon only and some only to Legends, seems overly complicated, unnecessary, and not at all what was intended.
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on December 14th 2019, 1:44 pm
Fact Files are IU...
Azronger
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on December 14th 2019, 5:21 pm
@Jake wrote:@Azronger Very little is expressly Legends in this. The Clone Wars show references are mixed in with old Expanded Universe material - like Dooku’s TCW images and accomplishments on the same page as the Dark Reaper or Republic comic fights - implying that the Clone Wars show is meant to fit in with the Legends parts of the Fact File, as opposed to Rebels which exists on its own without such overlap. 

The idea that we have to split the TCW references of - and within - each Fact File so that some apply to Canon only and some only to Legends, seems overly complicated, unnecessary, and not at all what was intended.

TCW is a part of both continuities. When old Clone Wars and TCW material are mixed like that, it tells us the article in question is Legends. However, when TCW material is by its lonesome, we should again by default assume Canon only, so long as the article is post-split, of course. It's not really complicated - you just have to look at the context.
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