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SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 10th 2019, 6:45 pm
O-Siri wrote:
Azronger wrote:
O-Siri wrote:Kenobi. Fact is all of Vader's showings ANH-RotJ are sub-TPM Kenobi. Lucas's statement is consistent with OT Vader's showings. People argue his pre-OT feats and say he grew rapidly. I say Suit-Vader was at his peak in his mid-twenties and went downhill from there. Who says everyone grows with age? Many prizefighters lose their skills and desire when they reach their mid-forties and struggle with journeymen and over-the-hillers, they would have easily crushed in their prime, which is basicly what Vader was doing; struggling with raw and inexperienced Luke and old past it Obi-Wan.

TPM Obi-Wan got fucked by Maul who was pressured by Qui-Gon who is an old man and not a real Jedi by that standard (Maul is also a young boy in TPM as he is younger than Luke was in RotJ, and in TCW he is a cyborg like Vader). ANH Vader on the other hand was stalemating an old man in Ben and then grew a lot from there.


You can pick at Lucas's wording, but the context behind his statement is clear and it's back up by performances. It's not a case of a random Lucas quote taking precedence over EU feats which by itself is backward logic, it's a case of Lucas's intent back up by feats and performances in this particular era. It's the big picture that counts not random quotes.

 Jinn is a bit past-prime but still top-tier as he kept himself in great condition and remained active, unlike Kenobi who wasted away in the desert and was prematurely aged by Tatooine's harsh climate. Maul and TPM Kenobi are young but trained from a young age and well seasoned. Luke, by contrast, started his training late and went to Force cram school for a couple of months.

And Vader wasn't just a cyborg he was crippled, unlike Maul who was restored to his former power through Talzin's magicks.
Don't you think it's weird how Kenobi would just allow himself to decline so badly?
King Joker
King Joker
Level One
Level One

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 10th 2019, 7:31 pm
Yeah, given Kenobi’s express purpose of protecting Luke, the idea that he would’ve let himself “waste away” is certainly odd. That’s not to say that he could’ve prevented himself from declining, which at a certain point is obviously beyond his control, but there’d be ample reason for Kenobi to invest in maintaining his abilities.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 10th 2019, 7:40 pm
Jensaarai1 might have a heart attack if he ever reads this.

Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 11th 2019, 12:37 am
Jesus Christ. Vader sweeps.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 11th 2019, 4:29 am
O-Siri wrote:
Azronger wrote:
O-Siri wrote:Kenobi. Fact is all of Vader's showings ANH-RotJ are sub-TPM Kenobi. Lucas's statement is consistent with OT Vader's showings. People argue his pre-OT feats and say he grew rapidly. I say Suit-Vader was at his peak in his mid-twenties and went downhill from there. Who says everyone grows with age? Many prizefighters lose their skills and desire when they reach their mid-forties and struggle with journeymen and over-the-hillers, they would have easily crushed in their prime, which is basicly what Vader was doing; struggling with raw and inexperienced Luke and old past it Obi-Wan.

TPM Obi-Wan got fucked by Maul who was pressured by Qui-Gon who is an old man and not a real Jedi by that standard (Maul is also a young boy in TPM as he is younger than Luke was in RotJ, and in TCW he is a cyborg like Vader). ANH Vader on the other hand was stalemating an old man in Ben and then grew a lot from there.


You can pick at Lucas's wording, but the context behind his statement is clear and it's back up by performances. It's not a case of a random Lucas quote taking precedence over EU feats which by itself is backward logic, it's a case of Lucas's intent back up by feats and performances in this particular era. It's the big picture that counts not random quotes.

 Jinn is a bit past-prime but still top-tier as he kept himself in great condition and remained active, unlike Kenobi who wasted away in the desert and was prematurely aged by Tatooine's harsh climate. Maul and TPM Kenobi are young but trained from a young age and well seasoned. Luke, by contrast, started his training late and went to Force cram school for a couple of months.

And Vader wasn't just a cyborg he was crippled, unlike Maul who was restored to his former power through Talzin's magicks.

Doesn't matter if Jinn kept in great shape; he is an old man and therefore sucks. TPM Maul may have trained for longer than Luke but he is still younger and therefore sucks. And he lost his legs, so by definition he is crippled like Vader and sucks. That he was restored to his former power after just proves how shit his former power was since it is equivalent to that of a cyborg.

[hideedit]


Last edited by Azronger on October 11th 2019, 6:25 am; edited 2 times in total
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 11th 2019, 5:35 am
I am so proud of this thread 😁😎
Deronn_Solo
Deronn_Solo

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 11th 2019, 9:39 am
King Joker wrote:Yeah, given Kenobi’s express purpose of protecting Luke, the idea that he would’ve let himself “waste away” is certainly odd. That’s not to say that he could’ve prevented himself from declining, which at a certain point is obviously beyond his control, but there’d be ample reason for Kenobi to invest in maintaining his abilities.

Yeah, Star Wars is weird in that regard. Sidious, as far as we know, didn't lift a lightsaber no more than 4 times from TPM and RotJ [him vs Maul bro's, vs Mace and the B-team, and vs Yoda] yet -- he still obtained his skill with no known source, that I know of, saying he astrophied in any significant way.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 11th 2019, 9:48 am
Vader ragdolls him or stomps in sabers.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 11th 2019, 6:51 pm
Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 12th 2019, 7:00 am
Latham2000 wrote:Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?

That is correct. One of the Fact Files alludes to this, saying that under Sidious' tutelage, Dooku's skills increased even further.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 12th 2019, 10:46 am
Azronger wrote:
Latham2000 wrote:Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?

That is correct. One of the Fact Files alludes to this, saying that under Sidious' tutelage, Dooku's skills increased even further.
Pls lock this thread, it's a mismatch
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 12th 2019, 11:35 am
SithSauce wrote:
Azronger wrote:
Latham2000 wrote:Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?

That is correct. One of the Fact Files alludes to this, saying that under Sidious' tutelage, Dooku's skills increased even further.
Pls lock this thread, it's a mismatch

NOOOO! Pls don't lock this thread, the most replies it gets the more proud of it that I become.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 12th 2019, 7:33 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
It's not really our MO to censor free speech, so nah, I don't see a reason to lock.
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
Level Seven
Level Seven

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 4:07 am
Kenobi wins sabers by the skin of his teeth. Loses force and all out badly.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 4:14 am
Lol at TPM Kenobi standing a chance in sabers
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
Level Seven
Level Seven

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 4:16 am
Make an argument in favour of Vader then.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 4:26 am
Well, tpm Kenobi is on a fairly high level. Gillard stated he was a 7: 

Obi-Wan has gone up one level from Episode I to Episode III, but it’s a huge jump from one level to another. It’s not just about a style of fighting—it’s mental as well. Anakin has gone up probably four levels from Episode II to Episode III. So he’s gone beyond Obi-Wan, but he hasn’t gone beyond him mentally."


Then we have him being noted to be one of the best in the order (credit to MP and Ethan for the quote): 

"Though the cruisers carried some of the best Jedi in the Order- including Windu, Adi Gallia, Eeth Koth, Plo Koon, Micah Gilett, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Qui-Gon's Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi- the Yinchorri possessed cortosis-weave armor that could resist lightsaber cuts."

—The New Essential Chronology
So while I’m still unsure whether or not Vader is below him it wouldn’t be all that bad.
avatar
MP
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 5:21 am
As I’ve noted in my current SS with LotL, these kinds of quotes can’t be used to argue Kenobi as a Padawan was one of the greatest Jedi. He was a gifted Padawan, but that does not mean he’s automatically contending with Vader because Windu let him come along during that mission.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 7:04 am
Would TPM Kenobi even beat Roan Shryne?
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 10:21 am
Nick states that Anakin has gine from level 5 to level 9, which always confuses me because in other interviews he says that AotC Anakin is a level 7, so he must've misspoken about AotC Anakin being a level 5.
avatar
LOTL

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 10:56 am
Meatpants wrote:As I’ve noted in my current SS with LotL, these kinds of quotes can’t be used to argue Kenobi as a Padawan was one of the greatest Jedi. He was a gifted Padawan, but that does not mean he’s automatically contending with Vader because Windu let him come along during that mission.

Your arguments are certainly wrong though


Last edited by LOTL on October 13th 2019, 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 10:59 am
This thread is just painful.
avatar
MP
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 11:07 am
LOTL wrote:
Meatpants wrote:As I’ve noted in my current SS with LotL, these kinds of quotes can’t be used to argue Kenobi as a Padawan was one of the greatest Jedi. He was a gifted Padawan, but that does not mean he’s automatically contending with Vader because Windu let him come along during that mission.

Your arguments are certainly wrong though

Hurry up and prove it, then.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 13th 2019, 1:14 pm
^ power
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

October 16th 2019, 7:30 am
WalkingInCircles wrote:This thread is just painful.
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TPM Kenobi vs Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: TPM Kenobi vs Vader

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