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Azronger
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How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Empty Re: How many Dooku's to defeat...

on October 9th 2019, 5:54 am
1. Base IH Anakin: One is enough, honestly. While Anakin is the greater combatant in pure stats, Dooku was able to break his flow in a single taunt in the novel. If not for Palpatine's presence, I think Dooku would have taken it.

2. Vjun Dooku: Two. Dooku fighting an amped version of himself obviously loses, but I doubt the amp is great enough to overcome two unamped duplicates.

3. Novel Vitiate: One. Novel Revan is kinda fucked by scaling, and Vitiate wasn't that much more powerful than him, even on a nexus. On top of that, Dooku's an infinitely greater combatant.

4. Darth Plagueis: Three, honestly. The power gap is vast, and Plagueis is easily on Dooku's level in his control and mastery of his power. Midi-chlorian hax helps him too.

5. TPM Sidious: Same answer, minus the midi-chlorian manipulation.

6. RotS Sidious: Same answer, minus the midi-chlorian manipulation.

7. TFU Sidious: No idea. Sidious at this point is astronomically more powerful than Dooku - the way he no-sold full potential Galen's suicide blast serves as a testament to that. His mastery is also on par or above. It either comes down to simply how long Sidious's stamina lasts, or how many Dookus it takes to channel their power in unison to overpower their former Master.

8. RotJ Sidious: Same answer.

9. DE Sidious: If Sidious plays it smart, he can take out as many as possible with Force storms. His power at this point transcends convention and can instantly raze planets and, if given time, "consume all of space."

10. Mortis Luke: Don't know how powerful this version of Luke is.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Empty Re: How many Dooku's to defeat...

on October 9th 2019, 6:03 am
1. Quite honestly if you want to bitch that Dooku can oneshot Obi-Wan I see no reason why that standard doesn't apply to Anakin. Dooku easily staggers him or floors him with a kick and stabs him in the heart. Or just ragdolls him. Takes 1. No psych warfare needed.

2. The amp did not seem that substantial. 2.

3. 1

4. 1. splits bar hacks. 2. seals it

5. Same as above.

6. 3 or 4.

7. 4 or 5

8. 10.

9. A dozen

10. Somewhere in the near three digits.
Deronn_Solo
Deronn_Solo

How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Empty Re: How many Dooku's to defeat...

on October 9th 2019, 7:15 pm
@Strangerthingsfan77:    

Except there are quotes which say Dooku barely escaped with his life implying Yoda had lethal intent. wrote:

You know HP (am I saying it right), the quotes you're alluding to and my point about Yoda holding back, aren't exactly mutually exclusive. You can be willing to kill, and not tap into your full power, or given it your all. Was Yoda willing to kill Dooku? Sure, but it wasn't his only, sole intent, and sources have identified Yoda as trying to redeem him -  like any credible Jedi would. So, I seriously doubt, a redeem mode Yoda, would be drawing on the Force as much as he was when he was strictly in kill mode vs Sidious. Such as when he flexed his telekinetic prowess from the onset, something he didn't even attempt vs Dooku.

Feel free to disagree however you see fit.




As for the quotes saying Yoda won easily, I don't care for them when they contradict the primary material, wrote:
I mean, where they all that close? Yoda seemed to be handily him pretty casually in the movies, and the novel and comic has him  stone-walling and defeating Dooku throughly as well. Dooku held his own, but he was emphatically on the losing end. Impressive sure, but not something Plagueis or Sidious can't replicate, or outperform.
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Level Two
Level Two

How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Empty Re: How many Dooku's to defeat...

on October 9th 2019, 8:28 pm
@Deronn_Solo

You know HP (am I saying it right), the quotes you're alluding to and my point about Yoda holding back, aren't exactly mutually exclusive. You can be willing to kill, and not tap into your full power, or given it your all. Was Yoda willing to kill Dooku? Sure, but it wasn't his only, sole intent, and sources have identified Yoda as trying to redeem him -  like any credible Jedi would. So, I seriously doubt, a redeem mode Yoda, would be drawing on the Force as much as he was when he was strictly in kill mode vs Sidious. Such as when he flexed his telekinetic prowess from the onset, something he didn't even attempt vs Dooku.

Feel free to disagree however you see fit.

Your original statement was vague and didn't clarify in what way Yoda was holding back (e.g. did he not have lethal intent, was he not using his full power, etc), and I felt it important to cover all bases, so I decided to cover the lethal intent argument. Given that you weren't arguing for that, and I now have an actual idea of what you are arguing, I can respond to your claims in full.

To address your argument, the main problem with it is that it doesn't have the slightest bit of substantiation. I would very much like to see the quotes which you believe prove Yoda was "clearly holding back," and discredit Dooku's feat, because from where I'm sitting the idea that Yoda used anything other than his full power against Dooku is looking pretty unlikely:

Insider 122 wrote:How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Yoda_u10

Now, that we've got that sorted, let's get onto discussing the fight itself.

---

I mean, where they all that close?

That they were close is not something I ever claimed, I simply contested the notion that Yoda won "easily." I acknowledge Yoda's win was decisive, but Dooku still put up a solid performance, which imo is enough to put him above Plagueis and TPM Sidious.

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Yoda seemed to be handily him pretty casually in the movies,

The choreography is vague and unclear, so we must look to the other sources to clarify how well Dooku did. The only thing we can say for sure about the movie portrayal of the fight is that Dooku will not lose to Yoda in 40 seconds.

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and the novel and comic has him stone-walling and defeating Dooku throughly as well.

The stonewalling was adapted into the novel and comic because it was in the script for the movie, but George changed his intent prior to release as is stated here:

How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Lucas_10

This change of intent is made clear in the final cut of the movie where the stonewalling is completely absent.

The only relevant portions of the fight are the Force clash and the exchange after the stonewalling and in both the novel has Dooku performing well. In the Force clash he pressures Yoda with his lightning, and in the lightsaber duel he "holds strong" and "parries brilliantly" even nearly matching Yoda's strength in a blade lock with the Yoda only managing to push his blade "a bit."

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Dooku held his own, but he was emphatically on the losing end.

We're basically agreed here, though I appear to have a slightly more favourable view of Dooku's performance than you do. I also think it's worth noting that Dooku had already had "a lot taken out of him" by his previous bout with Skywalker before the battle even began.

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Impressive sure, but not something Plagueis or Sidious can't replicate, or outperform.

Mind substantiating why you think they can replicate/outperform Dooku's feat? Plagueis is a massive boost and 13 years(?) of growth away from the iteration of Sheev that Yoda matched. I honestly can't see him as being as close to Yoda as Dooku is.
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How many Dooku's to defeat... - Page 2 Empty Re: How many Dooku's to defeat...

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