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blackymarket
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Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar  Empty Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar

on October 4th 2019, 2:04 am
Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar  Main-qimg-9357770ae171cfc7bec2eab27f2e5691 Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar  Maxresdefault


Perfect Synergy between teammates. The Fight takes place in the Theed Hanger.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry

Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar  Empty Re: Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar

on October 4th 2019, 2:58 am
Mace can solo unless Galen goes ham in which case Mace & Kolar will be enough
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on October 4th 2019, 3:06 am
Mace can solo
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on October 4th 2019, 3:24 am
Team 1 every time.
The Ellimist
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on October 4th 2019, 5:02 am
Is this TFU or RotJ Vader?

If Mace Windu sinks into vaapad, he solos. Without vaapad, he can still defeat either combatant on team 1. Given the location, Vader or Galen can probably defeat the B-team with difficulty. Not sure whether Windu wins before the B-team falls though. But given that he has vaapad here, team 2 takes it.
BreakofDawn
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on October 4th 2019, 12:03 pm
Mace honestly solos if TFU Vader. If ROTJ Vader, it's a lot closer.
DC77 (Reborn)
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on October 5th 2019, 5:26 am
Team 2. Mace is too much.
HellfireUnit
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on October 5th 2019, 7:07 am
Tbh I may back team 1. If Marek engages Mace, and the latter would be unable to utilize from Vaapad against Marek (who is a Jedi), Marek may actually have a chance of stalemate, even defeating him. Vader would also take down the 3 other masters by himself.
KingofBlades
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on October 5th 2019, 12:37 pm
Can someone actually quantify Vader's growth between TFU and RotJ instead of just assuming it was significant because of...reasons?
BreakofDawn
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on October 6th 2019, 11:26 am
Prime Mace honestly doesn't need Vaapad, he's just too much anyway. Not sure why people think Mace is about as useless as a knitted condom without Vaapad considering his fight with Sheev and other feats but okay. 


Can someone actually quantify Vader's growth between TFU and RotJ instead of just assuming it was significant because of...reasons?

It can't really be quantified. We know he grew considerably, but beyond that it's not particularly clear. His TP feats are certainly better, but that's about it.
SithSauce
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on October 6th 2019, 1:42 pm
Mace can potentially solo
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on October 6th 2019, 2:38 pm
I would like some reasoning as to why Mace solos.

Not sure why people think Mace is about as useless as a knitted condom without Vaapad considering his fight with Sheev

Where he used Vapaad...
CuckedCurry
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on October 6th 2019, 3:02 pm
Nobody here has a clue how Vaapad works
BreakofDawn
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on October 7th 2019, 10:32 am
StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:I would like some reasoning as to why Mace solos.

Not sure why people think Mace is about as useless as a knitted condom without Vaapad considering his fight with Sheev

Where he used Vapaad...
I was talking about his individual feats in that fight where he was outside of Vaapad but okay then.
HellfireUnit
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on October 7th 2019, 11:16 am
@CuckedCurry wrote:Nobody here has a clue how Vaapad works

Care to explain us, to the peasants?
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on October 7th 2019, 11:48 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:
StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:I would like some reasoning as to why Mace solos.

Not sure why people think Mace is about as useless as a knitted condom without Vaapad considering his fight with Sheev

Where he used Vapaad...
I was talking about his individual feats in that fight where he was outside of Vaapad but okay then.

Which feats?

Are you talking about Sheev TKing Windu when he was out of Vaapad?
CuckedCurry
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on October 7th 2019, 11:56 am
Vaapad is Mace drawing from his own darkness, not that of others. Although external darkness does help with one’s connection to Vaapad, it is not essential. Mace explains in Shatterpoint how he is able to accept his own inner darkness, and that is what is the source of Vaapad. Saying nonsense like “Mace without Vaapad” is like saying Dooku without augmentation. Vaapad is what makes Mace so powerful, not his natural aptitude. We know that his potential is below the likes of Dooku, Kar Vastor, Anakin, Yoda & perhaps even Maul.

Power manifests itself in strange ways, and it is certainly not linear. Vaapad is Mace’s gift, and that is how his potential has manifested itself. Mace is not amazingly talented in a convential sense, and this is echoed in Shatterpoint, Labyrinth of Evil, the ROTS novel, and even his mission with Saesee Tiin. Much like, say, Nejaa Halcyon or Darth Zannah, his power doesn’t stem from raw tk or mass domination, but the ability to connect with the fault lines of the Force and the darkness in his heart. Much like how you wouldn’t say Corran Horn is less powerful than Whie Malreaux just because Whie has better TK, you wouldn’t say Saesee Tiin is more powerful than Mace. Power doesn’t just cover tk. 

We have no idea how powerful Base Mace is with tk, but I would say that he isn’t as conventionally viable as you may believe. I mean, when he was as deep as he could go with Vaapad, he was still painfully outmatched by Darth Sidious with regards to conventional force power.
KingofBlades
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on October 7th 2019, 1:11 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:

Can someone actually quantify Vader's growth between TFU and RotJ instead of just assuming it was significant because of...reasons?

It can't really be quantified. We know he grew considerably, but beyond that it's not particularly clear. His TP feats are certainly better, but that's about it.
How is it exactly, that you know Vader grew considerably? Is there a source stating this is the case?
KingofBlades
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on October 7th 2019, 1:16 pm
OT: Mace wrecks Vader swiftly while the rest of the team holds off Marek who gets overwhelmed once Mace enters the fold.
BreakofDawn
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on October 7th 2019, 2:13 pm
@KingofBlades wrote:
@BreakofDawn wrote:

Can someone actually quantify Vader's growth between TFU and RotJ instead of just assuming it was significant because of...reasons?

It can't really be quantified. We know he grew considerably, but beyond that it's not particularly clear. His TP feats are certainly better, but that's about it.
How is it exactly, that you know Vader grew considerably? Is there a source stating this is the case?
More that this wasn't his peak:

Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.
-- Beware The Sith
In his duel against Darth Vader on Bespin, Luke Skywalker reveals himself as an extraordinarily gifted artist with the blade who has largely taught himself. After a single brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi years ago, and only a short time with Yoda, Skywalker is able to hold up against a Dark Lord of the Sith at the height of his powers.

--Insider 62
Ben was still clutching his lightsaber when he reached an access tunnel that led back to Docking Bay 327. As he entered the tunnel, he sighted a tall, shadowy form at the tunnel's other the end. Even if Ben had never seen Darth Vader's cybernetic incarnation via a HoloNet broadcast on Tatooine, he still would have sensed the power of his former apprentice, now concealed within black armor.

-- The Life And Legend Of Obi-Wan Kenobi
“This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words.”
-- A New Hope
His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor.
-- Return Of The Jedi
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on October 7th 2019, 2:24 pm
Almost all of those are in reference to Anakin vs Vader and they're contradicted by Lucas. Insider 62 doesn't suggest he grew (both TFU and ESB can simultaneously be the height of his powers), and while the ROTJ quote does say he grew it doesn't really suggest how much he increased in power. All Force Users increase in power constantly, but we don't just assume MEGAGROWTH unless the quotes state the growth is massive, or if we have comparisons between the characters pre-boost and post-boost self (e.g. they fight character X and get stomped, but come back later and beat character X).
Greysentinel365
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on October 7th 2019, 2:59 pm
Once again, any arguments for Vader that can’t be oneshot by a GL quote?
BreakofDawn
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on October 7th 2019, 3:14 pm
I can't be asked to do this anymore. Do and believe what you want.
KingofBlades
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on October 7th 2019, 3:42 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:I can't be asked to do this anymore. Do and believe what you want.
Yo... You good?
Meatpants
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on October 7th 2019, 4:14 pm
Mace doesn’t solo, but Jedi teams wins solidly.
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