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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 8:51 am
Rules

  • Nyriss is as she appears in Revan. Katarn is as he appears in his fight with Jerec in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.
  • They start at a 20m distance in the pictured location.
  • They fight in character.

Darth Nyriss
Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Latest?cb=20150704014233

Kyle Katarn
Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) 4044073-1736400978-22350

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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Latest?cb=20130625001526
Azronger
Azronger
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 11:27 am
Katarn tbh. Nyriss can char the skin of two people with a burst of lightning on a potent dark side nexus while Katarn tanked an attack whose offshoots of energy disintegrated a metal ramp durable enough to hold a massive ship in place. Kyle could probably therefore just walk through her Force attacks similar to what Exar Kun did with Aleema Keto, and then finish her off.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 11:39 am
Kyle was tanking hits from a Vader level force user. That's beyond Nyriss, nothing more to add.
MasterCilghal
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 12:47 pm
Katarn, to be honest. Nyriss is extremely powerful, given that she could dominate the exile and Scourge ( albeit on a dark side nexus), but Katarn is a far better duelist, and, as others have already explained a comparatively powerful force user.
The Apprentice
The Apprentice
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 1:02 pm
Nyriss tbh.
Isv
Isv

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 1:48 pm
I will defbunk Jerec scaling, but suffice it to say, tanking a blast from an opponent who was not trying to kill you attacking you means absolutely nothing
LSDMB
LSDMB
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 2:08 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:I will defbunk Jerec scaling, but suffice it to say, tanking a blast from an opponent who was not trying to kill you attacking you means absolutely nothing
I'd argue it means something, but the question of what that something constitutes is up in the air.
Isv
Isv

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 2:12 pm
@LSDMB wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:I will defbunk Jerec scaling, but suffice it to say, tanking a blast from an opponent who was not trying to kill you attacking you means absolutely nothing
I'd argue it means something, but the question of what that something constitutes is up in the air.

To put this into context. Jerec drawing on the VOTJ was stated to be able to oneshot Stars, and was possibly beyond Sidious, Neophyte Katarn feasibly cannot be able to contend with that unless, like the quotes mention, he was holding back trying to convert Katarn to the Darkside
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 2:18 pm
I didn’t see that Katarn is taken at the time of DF 2, at which i’d say Nyriss wins.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 2nd 2019, 2:20 pm
Regardless of whether his intent was to kill or not it's irrelevant, he was still doing everything in his power to subdue Kyle, and tanking hits from somebody who is Vader+ is incredibly worth mentioning. Jerec's fallible and arrogant commentary at a later stage where he was more powerful doesn't concern me.

Quotes showing Jerec was holding back in any case?
Quorian Debatist
Quorian Debatist

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 3rd 2019, 12:00 am
DC77 wrote:Regardless of whether his intent was to kill or not it's irrelevant, he was still doing everything in his power to subdue Kyle, and tanking hits from somebody who is Vader+ is incredibly worth mentioning. Jerec's fallible and arrogant commentary at a later stage where he was more powerful doesn't concern me.

Quotes showing Jerec was holding back in any case?

Excuse my laziness in not getting a quote, but it's 9:37 PM at the time of writing this, and I'm wide awake, so I apologize in advance if this doesn't convince you with my wide awake rhetoric.

Header 1


Why pray tell do you need a specific quote that Jerec was holding back if what our squirrelly friend ISVader is saying is correct?

If Jerec was operating at an "omnipotent" range, and could cause cosmic consequences worth of damage, then why do you need proof that he was withholding his power? Should that not go without saying? Or should we assume that every attack that Jerec was sending off was the full power he could currently wield? If that's the case...

The previous sentence continued from the ellipsis


... and we do believe he was operating at full power, then that brings up the question of how potent Jerec actually was, and how much of what he did should be relegated to hyperbole instead? If we start beating down that door, then what is the point of an amp?

I know this is Star Wars, and you think you can win arguments by a lack of specific quotes being used, but sometimes an amount of common sense and logic should be applied to make sense of the situations. And in this situation, do you think it a reasonable request to ask ISV of a quote where a Vader level being - with sole access to the most powerful nexus in the galaxy - was holding back when he attacked a neophyte Kyle Katarn, and failed to put him down? Or do you believe we can reason this down without assuming Kyle Katarn can tank impossibly powerful attacks that on paper should disintegrate 99.9 percent of people in Star Wars?

This is also a header


I'm not saying we should exclude it, I'm saying we should make sense of it. We should not move this feat to the top of the mountain and declare that his new base; we should understand the consequences this creates, and understand the factors that went into it.

The kids at the docks would call this a "high end feat," and while that might be foreign to you, that means that it's a feat that goes against his norm. And in your context, it especially goes against his norm. What are his feats in the game underlined words and what feat doesn't belong in the same tier as the others? You see what I'm saying here?

So with that being said, do ISV's statements make sense? I haven't looked into the feat myself today, but considering you didn't question him - only questioned him holding back - I have been under the assumption you have no issue with the context he presented, just of his narrative of Jerec holding back.

So again, does it make sense an omnipotent level being was holding back by blasting Kyle and not killing him, while trying to turn Kyle?

If so, all that does is destroy the no-limits aspect of the feat itself. It doesn't erase the feat like you fear it does. It just makes you have to approach the instance with a little more tact than you're accustomed to.


TL;DR: This took longer to write than I wanted it to, but I'm lazy, and I was drinking Irish Coffee today so not purely alert I guess. I was also eating pretzel crackers and water, and I stopped to look for sheets as well. You see, I like to change my sheets every couple of days so everything stays clean. This allows me to sleep and cure myself of possible laziness, and allows my muscles to grow as I sleep.

I apologize if this took longer than you were expecting, but I never decided to write this until I clicked this thread for the first time, so you'll have to forgive me for not giving you a heads up on when it'd be done.

Also Jerec/Kyle stuff was said.
xolthol
xolthol

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 3rd 2019, 3:18 am
Nyriss for the win
Azronger
Azronger
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 3rd 2019, 4:14 am
@Quorian Debatist wrote:
DC77 wrote:Regardless of whether his intent was to kill or not it's irrelevant, he was still doing everything in his power to subdue Kyle, and tanking hits from somebody who is Vader+ is incredibly worth mentioning. Jerec's fallible and arrogant commentary at a later stage where he was more powerful doesn't concern me.

Quotes showing Jerec was holding back in any case?

Excuse my laziness in not getting a quote, but it's 9:37 PM at the time of writing this, and I'm wide awake, so I apologize in advance if this doesn't convince you with my wide awake rhetoric.

Header 1




Why pray tell do you need a specific quote that Jerec was holding back if what our squirrelly friend ISVader is saying is correct?

If Jerec was operating at an "omnipotent" range, and could cause cosmic consequences worth of damage, then why do you need proof that he was withholding his power? Should that not go without saying? Or should we assume that every attack that Jerec was sending off was the full power he could currently wield? If that's the case...

The previous sentence continued from the ellipsis




... and we do believe he was operating at full power, then that brings up the question of how potent Jerec actually was, and how much of what he did should be relegated to hyperbole instead? If we start beating down that door, then what is the point of an amp?

I know this is Star Wars, and you think you can win arguments by a lack of specific quotes being used, but sometimes an amount of common sense and logic should be applied to make sense of the situations. And in this situation, do you think it a reasonable request to ask ISV of a quote where a Vader level being - with sole access to the most powerful nexus in the galaxy - was holding back when he attacked a neophyte Kyle Katarn, and failed to put him down? Or do you believe we can reason this down without assuming Kyle Katarn can tank impossibly powerful attacks that on paper should disintegrate 99.9 percent of people in Star Wars?

This is also a header




I'm not saying we should exclude it, I'm saying we should make sense of it. We should not move this feat to the top of the mountain and declare that his new base; we should understand the consequences this creates, and understand the factors that went into it.

The kids at the docks would call this a "high end feat," and while that might be foreign to you, that means that it's a feat that goes against his norm. And in your context, it especially goes against his norm. What are his feats in the game underlined words and what feat doesn't belong in the same tier as the others? You see what I'm saying here?

So with that being said, do ISV's statements make sense? I haven't looked into the feat myself today, but considering you didn't question him - only questioned him holding back - I have been under the assumption you have no issue with the context he presented, just of his narrative of Jerec holding back.

So again, does it make sense an omnipotent level being was holding back by blasting Kyle and not killing him, while trying to turn Kyle?

If so, all that does is destroy the no-limits aspect of the feat itself. It doesn't erase the feat like you fear it does. It just makes you have to approach the instance with a little more tact than you're accustomed to.


TL;DR: This took longer to write than I wanted it to, but I'm lazy, and I was drinking Irish Coffee today so not purely alert I guess. I was also eating pretzel crackers and water, and I stopped to look for sheets as well. You see, I like to change my sheets every couple of days so everything stays clean. This allows me to sleep and cure myself of possible laziness, and allows my muscles to grow as I sleep.

I apologize if this took longer than you were expecting, but I never decided to write this until I clicked this thread for the first time, so you'll have to forgive me for not giving you a heads up on when it'd be done.

Also Jerec/Kyle stuff was said.

I sense you will be a great addition to the forum.
Azronger
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 3:00 am
@SithSauce It'd be best if you'd use the search function to look for existing topics to avoid making duplicates. I'm bumping this thread and closing the other one.


Last edited by Azronger on May 13th 2019, 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
SithSauce
SithSauce

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 3:27 am
@Azronger Oh, didn't notice this had already been done
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 5:47 am
Nyriss oneshots again
Azronger
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 5:58 am
@Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 6:05 am
@Azronger wrote:
@Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?

Feats for Kyle being above the Jedi Exile?
Azronger
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 6:29 am
@Greysentinel365 wrote:
@Azronger wrote:
@Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?

Feats for Kyle being above the Jedi Exile?

Not seeing why we have to bring the Exile into this. The entire fight took place on a potent dark side nexus, which is made note of in the book several times. We have a much more direct way of comparing Nyriss and Kyle:

As she dragged the Jedi’s unconscious body into the nearby cell, one of the guards drew his weapon, while the other rushed over and picked his discarded blaster up from where Revan had kicked it aside.

Scourge nodded at the guards. In response to his silent command they crept to the foot of the stairs and peered up toward the door above.

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks.

Scourge took a step back, knowing exactly who had been responsible for unleashing the fury of the dark side against the hapless guards.

Nyriss made her way slowly down the stairs, the outspread fingers of her left hand still crackling with electricity. In her right hand she held her lightsaber, the blade humming softly. By the time she reached the bottom, Meetra had emerged from the nearby cell.


Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan

vs



(22:50)

The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and hurled the construct at Kyle's chest. The blast threw the Rebel backward onto the loading ramp. He staggered and had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship.

The lock sensed his presence, and the hatch started to close. The ramp disintegrated. The ship tilted away, and fell toward the rocks below.


Star Wars: Dark Forces - Jedi Knight

A metal ramp is more durable than a human body. Jerec's attack disintegrated the ramp, while Nyriss' only turned two people into charred husks while amplified by a dark side nexus. Then factor in that telekinesis in inherently less lethal than lightning, and Jerec's feat should come off as much more impressive (his attack, Force destruction, is a telekinetic in nature, not an energy blast like Force lightning). Kyle tanking it means he can probably shrug off Nyriss' efforts and the only chance she would have of hurting him with the Force would be through charging her lightning for twenty seconds, but in that time Kyle would have had time to gut her with his lightsaber.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 8:39 am
@Azronger wrote:
@Greysentinel365 wrote:
@Azronger wrote:
@Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?

Feats for Kyle being above the Jedi Exile?

Not seeing why we have to bring the Exile into this. The entire fight took place on a potent dark side nexus, which is made note of in the book several times. We have a much more direct way of comparing Nyriss and Kyle:

As she dragged the Jedi’s unconscious body into the nearby cell, one of the guards drew his weapon, while the other rushed over and picked his discarded blaster up from where Revan had kicked it aside.

Scourge nodded at the guards. In response to his silent command they crept to the foot of the stairs and peered up toward the door above.

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks.

Scourge took a step back, knowing exactly who had been responsible for unleashing the fury of the dark side against the hapless guards.

Nyriss made her way slowly down the stairs, the outspread fingers of her left hand still crackling with electricity. In her right hand she held her lightsaber, the blade humming softly. By the time she reached the bottom, Meetra had emerged from the nearby cell.


Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan

vs



(22:50)

The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and hurled the construct at Kyle's chest. The blast threw the Rebel backward onto the loading ramp. He staggered and had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship.

The lock sensed his presence, and the hatch started to close. The ramp disintegrated. The ship tilted away, and fell toward the rocks below.


Star Wars: Dark Forces - Jedi Knight

A metal ramp is more durable than a human body. Jerec's attack disintegrated the ramp, while Nyriss' only turned two people into charred husks while amplified by a dark side nexus. Then factor in that telekinesis in inherently less lethal than lightning, and Jerec's feat should come off as much more impressive (his attack, Force destruction, is a telekinetic in nature, not an energy blast like Force lightning). Kyle tanking it means he can probably shrug off Nyriss' efforts and the only chance she would have of hurting him with the Force would be through charging her lightning for twenty seconds, but in that time Kyle would have had time to gut her with his lightsaber.

1. Kyle only took the weaker, first blast to the chest. The text doesn't specify the second as hitting him directly and it's the one that does all the damage. The game cutscene likewise doesn't have Kyle take a direct hit like Rahn did.

2. Disintegrate just means to fall apart. It's not like Jerec turned it to powder. All he did was weaken it enough for the weight of the ship to tear it apart.

3. Lightning is different than TK in the way it interacts with he body and the damage it causes. Although I'm curious to hear about how Tavion is above Nyriss and a rival of Vader as she was able to easily wipe Kyle with a single bolt.

Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) 3958989-0010207253-6pDct
DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on May 13th 2019, 2:02 pm
Sigh*, still Kyle, lowballing aside.
EmperorCaedus
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

on November 16th 2019, 12:57 pm
Nyriss
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Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2) Empty Re: Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

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