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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 4:23 am
Full knowledge and recovery, starting distance 10 meters.

1. TPM
2. AotC
3. S1
4. S6
5. RotS base
6. RotS vaapad
7. Power level in Sidious fight
BreakofDawn
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 4:45 am
Stops at 5.
Shioz
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 4:48 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:Stops at 5.
dark_globe
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 4:54 am
probably wins slight majory in round 5
stops at 6
gets blitzed at 7 .
HellfireUnit
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:11 am
Not sure if Windu can utilize from Vaapad against Dooku. Unlike many Sith, Dooku doesn't really use the darkness in him. Which is why I think he clears 5 and may even pass round 6 if Windu is unable to utilize from his darkness. Hard stops at 7 though.
BreakofDawn
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:36 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Not sure if Windu can utilize from Vaapad against Dooku. Unlike many Sith, Dooku doesn't really use the darkness in him. Which is why I think he clears 5 and may even pass round 6 if Windu is unable to utilize from his darkness. Hard stops at 7 though.
Vaapad draws upon his own darkness most of all, and TCW Mace and ROTS Mace are pretty damn far apart.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry

Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:42 am
Post Shatterpoint wins
HellfireUnit
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:46 am
Yeah, Mace has a huge power growth during the CW but I still remain uncertain between their RotS base self's matchup. Also Vaapad does require the opponent's darkness to be fully functional. If he cannot utilize from Dooku's darkness, I doubt he can defeat the old fella.
BreakofDawn
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 6:25 am
Yeah, Mace has a huge power growth during the CW but I still remain uncertain between their RotS base self's matchup.



TCW Mace is already considered a near-equal if not equal of Dooku, and that's not including the massive power growth he experienced which boosted him to Sidious/KFV/Yoda tier.



Also Vaapad does require the opponent's darkness to be fully functional.

This is actually a myth which I'm not sure where it came from. 




Mace stood motionless except for the heaving of his chest. He knew already he could not match Vastor for raw power. With each breath, he stripped away another layer of restraint and inhibition. Another layer of serenity. He had to move his inner peace out of the way to let in the joy. The thrill. The sheer okay-why-not-let's-FIGHT. Because Vaapad was more than just a form of lightsaber combat. It was a state of mind. Night had deepened upon the jungle, and around them glowvines began to pulse faintly. To use Vaapad now, out here, was incredibly dangerous-almost as dangerous as not using Vaapad. The ultimate answer for power is skill.

-

And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself. 

-

He took one last look at the darkness that called to him- Darkness within mirroring darkness without - And turned away. 

-

It is a side effect of the Force immersion of Vaapad. My style grants great power, but at a terrible risk. Blood fever is a disease that can kill anyone it touches. To use Vaapad, you must allow yourself to enjoy the fight. You give yourself to the thrill of battle. The rush of winning. 

-


Mace Windu had almost smiled. "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda's Ataro is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu answer?"
Vaapad just lets Mace tap into his inner darkness (which is greater than his light, due to his Korunnai heritage) and turn it into usable power. An opponent's darkness helps, true, but it's not at all necessary. Mace could match Yoda for example by the time of ROTS by using this style because he learned not to fear his inner darkness, which started a huge growth in his powers.



If he cannot utilize from Dooku's darkness, I doubt he can defeat the old fella.

He's already as skilled if not moreso by ROTS and considerably more powerful. He also has superior physicals.


Last edited by BreakofDawn on September 26th 2019, 6:51 am; edited 2 times in total
HellfireUnit
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 6:38 am
Like I said, they are almost equal during RotS though Dooku should be superior during TCW.

About Vaapad:

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center

It isn't a myth. Without using Sidious' power, he would not be able to reach his level.

Base Dooku and Mace are close but Vjun Dooku is obviously superior. Like I said, if he cannot draw the darkness of Dooku, which he may not, he should lose.


BreakofDawn
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 6:44 am
Like I said, they are almost equal during RotS though Dooku should be superior during TCW.

Except they're not. As I said, they're equal around the time of Dark Rendezvous but Mace continued to grow considerably after that.


About Vaapad:

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center

It isn't a myth. Without using Sidious' power, he would not be able to reach his level.

If you want to be specific, the text also suggests that Mace's darkness matched Sheev's own:


Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. 

Mace needed comparable power to actually cope with the darkness rushing through him. He had to allow it to be used without falling to the darkness, in which case though he didn't control it he did harness it. Their power was going back and forth so neither could truly overpower the other. Bear in mind that Mace on Haruun Kal for example wouldn't have been able to cope with the darkness that would have flowed through him from the jungle, but here he harnesses and acts as a conduit for an even stronger source of power - far stronger, in fact.

Base Dooku and Mace are close but Vjun Dooku is obviously superior.

To TCW Mace, definitely.


Like I said, if he cannot draw the darkness of Dooku, which he may not, he should lose.

Except as I've said he wouldn't need it because he grew so considerably.
HellfireUnit
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 6:57 am
I'll respond, unfortunately my battery died.
Cheth
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 3:07 pm
Hard stop round 7
HellfireUnit
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:51 pm
1 - Mace and Dooku's comparison

It hasn't been stated them being equals in DR. Yoda only thought Mace may be the only one who could be equal on a neutral ground. Until the end times of TCW, Dooku has been superior to Mace.

2 - Vaapad

You claimed Vaapad requiring the darkness of enemy to be a myth, and Mace's own darkness is enough to empower him. Here are some information recorded by Mace himself during 22 BBY (taken from Jedi vs. Sith: Essential Guide to the Force / page 134):

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/601894916678746141/626894802411323419/IMG_20190927_003358.png

Firstly without enjoying the thrill of the fight you cannot use Vaapad. Secondly, you are a half of a loop, without embracing the opponent's darkness, you cannot use their power to boost yourself. Vaapad without a Dark Side opponent is just philosophy and no different than other saber forms. There is nothing suggesting that Mace's own darkness alone is enough to boost his power. He needs the other half with darkness to channel from their power. Against Yoda or Obi-Wan, Vaapad provides no advantages. Dooku is different than other Sith and isn't consumed by the dark side. His ambitions and fighting style is calm and mannered. He doesn't even have the Sith eyes, which is why I doubt Mace can use him as a conduit.

3 - Their base versions are comparable, but with the Vjun amp, Dooku is undeniably superior to Mace, even his base RotS self. Unless Windu can utilize from Vaapad, he is outmatched in power. 

Either way, no version of Dooku can beat round 7 and gets slaughtered.
HellfireUnit
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:52 pm
@DarthAnt66 any comments on this topic and Vaapad?
KingofBlades
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 26th 2019, 5:55 pm
Hard stop at 7
DoA
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 27th 2019, 8:37 am
Hits a brick wall at 7
DC77 (Reborn)
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 27th 2019, 12:38 pm
Could go down at 6, stops hard at 7.
Word Salad
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

on September 27th 2019, 1:43 pm
Dies at 7.
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Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet Empty Re: Vjun Dooku runs the Mace Windu gauntlet

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